Removing the availability of cheap labor by providing more worker rights, and less/no criminalization of undocumented immigrants alongside an h1b reform would do wonders for the general health of this society.
Nobody is against cheap workers paying taxes. They’re against undocumented workers getting paid under the table and unfairly competing with documented workers that have to pay taxes and thus are more expensive. Gotta solve the documentation problem one way or another.
Once illegal immigrants gain citizenship and essentially basic civil rights (being a criminal federally isn't really freedom no matter if your state is sort of cool about it or not) they will no longer be willing to work in these conditions. They don't report or sue now due to their status, people fear deportation and it's often used as a threat by business owners and housewives employing cleaners and nannies.
Observing public discourse regarding illegal immigration offers great insight into how the Overtone window works and how it can be pushed in any direction by elite-owned media. What is essentially illegal is now being called undocumented. It blows my mind. I had to go over a lot of hoops to be allowed to move to and work in Switzerland. It's the right of the host to set the rules and enforce them. If you don't intend to respect that and still come you're doing something illegal.
And I've been an expat in multiple countries for the majority of my life. Undocumented just means you broke the law to get in. This is illegall. Let's call a spade a spade.
Because being “undocumented” isn’t actually “illegal”.
Heck undocumented is a bad term too on its own but for other reasons.
Being in the US without a right to be in it, is a civil matter. Not criminal. It hasn’t been a criminal matter, and there are actually proponents of making it a criminal matter because then these folks would get actual representation in court.
Second, even if being in the US without the right to be in it becomes a criminal matter, you are still innocent until proven guilty. There are thousands of people who may not be able to produce evidence that they have a right to live in the US.
What Switzerland does has no place in this discussion either.
Anyway now that you know illegal is a factually wrong term, are you going to stop using it?
> What Switzerland does has no place in this discussion either.
Why?
I'm from EU; most countries here will require you to go through some legal process to become eligible to live and work there if you're from outside of EU. This is absolutely normal and expected.
Your argumentation is not only wrong, it would be impossible to maintain peace if crossing the border without any authorization was allowed. Can you imagine the number of Russian spies and saboteurs Poland would have to deal with if the borders were just open to everybody? It would be lunacy to allow that.
> Anyway now that you know illegal is a factually wrong term, are you going to stop using it?
It's not factually wrong. In most places in the world it's literally illegal to cross the border without a visa or other permit. You will get detained and expelled for doing that; and for a good reason.
That you might not like it and prefer to call it some other term doesn't change anything.
Russian spies are literally already within the American political system.
We weren’t able to stop spies during the height of the Cold War. We won’t now. Emotional arguments that point at a random unsubstantiated threat doesn’t actually help this discussion.
Switzerland isn’t relevant in this discussion because we’re talking about the US. They’re not nearly in the same situation or league to be compared.
And again, illegal is really mainly for criminal matters. Not civil. You can keep using whatever word you want but calling it a conspiracy that “big media” is doing is just plain wrong.
It's amazing how you avoid all the points I'm making. I've been in discussions like this too many times. There's no value in dragging it any more at this point. Thank you for your comments, but I'd rather put my energy into more constructive discourse.
The word “illegal” applies to both civil and criminal matters. The presumption of innocence doesn’t apply to civil matters. More importantly, labels generally refer to actual facts. You can talk in general about “speeders” or “shoplifters” though obviously the police would have to prove any individual person accused of those things was in fact doing so.
Paradoxically there is probably no other developed country where finding work as an un undocumented illegal immigrant is easier than in the US. While immigration laws there are very strict by western standards.
How are you going to have “more worker rights” when your workforce is desperate, poorly educated immigrants who come from countries with no labor or workplace safety protections? Counter cutting is a custom business—these aren’t mega corps you can easily regulate. Did you know that this was even a problem until you read this article? Do you think do gooders can be everywhere to observe this sort of thing and bring it to the authorities? Do you think legislators are going to care about this issue when it only affects undocumented immigrants who can’t vote? (Or are you suggesting that people should be able to vote the minute they come over the border?)
There is a deep and fundamental link between having a native born workforce that is educated in this country and socialized to expect certain minimum standards, and the ability to legislate and enforce increased worker protections.
They already have legal protections for this. The problem is the workforce is poorly educated immigrants who, who are fleeing desperate circumstances and have different expectations compared to native born Americans. They’re much less likely to strike to demand better conditions when they’re just grateful things are better than in back home.
