I understand where a lot of people commenting here come from, but I think Female only tech events are actually amazing.
I believe the main reason why there's less women in tech is because there's less women in tech(!) It's really hard to jump in a new field where you're the extreme minority. Just as a crude example, imagine getting into nursing school as a guy. That would take a lot of guts. I know because I have a friend who did it and you can easily imagine the kind of comments he's getting all the time from families, strangers, administrators, etc. However, if there were more guys in nursing, it wouldn't be as hard.
You can also think about being gay in San-Francisco right now vs 50 years ago. Yes, a lot of things changed, but part of the reason why it's getting much better is because there simply are more gays, you know you're not alone.
I'm not sure if this was a good example. But women in tech are a bit similar. It's hard to jump in when you're the minority. It's much easier to take the easy route and get a profession where there's already a good ratio of men/women.
Why am I saying all this? Because I think women-only events help girls looking to move into tech understand that there actually are women in tech. If we'd only have mixed-in events, the few women in the crowd would easily be missed by the overwhelming majority of guys.
Someone also posted something about Black, Latino/Hispanic Founders. That's extremely related. A black friend of mine told me that one of the hardest thing about being black in the tech community is that he's almost always the only one. It takes a lot of guts to be the only different one in the room. Some people like that, but for lots of people it's hard. Personally, as an introvert, I'd hate to have everyone in the room looking at me the second I enter the room, all the time.
The problem with using exclusion in order to solve social problems is that sooner or later the group need to start hating others in order to validate a continuation of the exclusion.
A extremely related issue is indeed how African Americans are treated in American. The Black Panther Party was a reaction to racism in the police (In 1966, only 16 of Oakland's 661 police officers were African American) in the same way that women exclusive events are a reaction to sexism and gender ratio in IT.
I understand that using exclusion is a simple method in order create a environment where a minority groups feel more included. It also source for hate, tribe mentality and radicalization. When people like me criticize such methods, it simply because the benefits do not seem to validate the high cost.
> The problem with using exclusion in order to solve social problems is that sooner or later the group need to start hating others in order to validate a continuation of the exclusion.
I think this is a matter of perspective. When a certain section of a population (50% in this case!) is passively or actively discouraged from participation, I don't view an event like this as exclusion of the majority but as radical inclusion of the minority.
YCombinator plays a significant role in the community around tech entrepreneurship and, most importantly, how that community is portrayed to the rest of the world. I don't see how this relates to the Black Panthers which were started, as you say, as a response to institutional racism. If I were a gambling man, I would bet that the Black Panthers would have had much more of a cultural impact than they did if they were born out of, and were actively supported, by the same institutions whose behavior they fought against.
Furthermore, humanity's tribal instincts aren't inherently bad and often they serve a useful purpose. Who here hasn't band together with like minded individuals for support whens faced with adversity? The problem arises when that tribalism is used to put down other 'tribes' which I do not think is the intention here.
You don't view it as an exclusion of anyone but as inclusion of a minority. Here I disagree, and I do so based on YCombinator previous statements.
"the go-to place where women can speak honestly with each other, deliberately away from the male gender".
If you think a person saying that statement is all about inclusion and not exclusion, I suggest a test. Use such statements about people around you and see how they react. If you are married, tell your partner that you want to go to a party with friends, deliberately away from that person. If they react happily and thank you for being inclusive with your friends then its clearly shown that this is all about being inclusive.
That's a really interesting comment, and I think you're correct. Look at feminism today vs. back when it was actually relevant. Now, since it can't credibly be argued that women are oppressed in Western nations, it's turned into a movement about hating men and oppressing them.
> Some people like that, but for lots of people it's hard. Personally, as an introvert, I'd hate to have everyone in the room looking at me the second I enter the room, all the time.
If in 2014 you are still feeling different for a __color__, I think the problem is more on you than others.
I'm not saying that racism or things like that don't exist. That is another thing.
I'm saying that really I'm pretty annoyed when I read these things. So what I'm Italian and I'm always the only Italian in the room, and so what?
Also, we want the same sex thing? What if we do Only Man Conferences? ? How much bad press will that get?
We want to be all equal? So what if a site of the weight of oKcupid will be like okWhiteCupid as this: www.blackpeoplemeet.com
Would be fun to read on hacker news: "Ok Cupid" now becomes only for whites. But if we want to be really equal no one should be upset right?
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Long thing...
I'm sayin' that while I'm for the parity of things and equality in general I just see most of them just taking advantage of being a minority to complain when things gets wrong.
As far I can tell you, mostly in my day to day life I don't see this white male dominance. I never judged someone just from the color or for being a girl, gay or whatever could be.
I'm pretty sure that is the same for most of us.
I'm not saying that there aren't problems about that.
TL;DR; humans seems to like to create problems (on both sides).
>> So what I'm Italian and I'm always the only Italian in the room, and so what?
>> If in 2014 you are still feeling different for a __color__, I think the problem is more on you than others.
The thing is.. you're right that it's fucking ridiculous that people are so judgmental and mean for a __color__, and that __they__ have a problem. But the fact that matters is that when you're the one being judged and mistreated every day, it doesn't really matter if they're right or not, it hurts and it's frustrating.
>> Also, we want the same sex thing? What if we do Only Man Conferences? ? How much bad press will that get?
That's a whole different subject. The point is, why would you do a man-only conference? Is it because you really care about having only men in there? Or because that's a way to (passive-aggressively) express your opinion against how stupid you think feminism is?
>> I just see most of them just taking advantage of being a minority to complain when things gets wrong.
I see what you mean, and maybe it's true in rare occasions. But more often than not, for someone to publicly talk about an issue, it's something important to them. Maybe not to you, but to them.
As a stupid example, it really pisses me off when people are disturbing me when I try to hack. I lose all my productivity and I feel like I wasted my day. But for them, they don't care.. they don't understand, they're just chatting about the weather or whatever. Unless I take the time to explain to them why it bothers me, they won't get it.
So, maybe when you see the other gender complaining you think they're annoying, or find excuses, or are abusing their minority. But in practice, I'd recommend paying close attention to what they say because it's not about what you think, it's about how you (or someone else) just hurt them without even knowing it.
>> I never judged someone just from the color or for being a girl, gay or whatever could be.
What if I told you that your post is extremely cruel for someone struggling with racial or gender harassment?
>> I'm pretty sure that is the same for most of us.
>> What if I told you that your post is extremely cruel for someone struggling with racial or gender harassment?
Probably where I live (SF) I can't totally see the entire problem as you.
Again I'm not saying that there aren't problems at all or SF reflects the world. I'm saying that I'm my pretty own small experience I saw something filled under racism or feminism when it wasn't.
>> As a stupid example, it really pisses me off when people are disturbing me when I try to hack. I lose all my productivity and I feel like I wasted my day. But for them, they don't care... they don't understand, they're just chatting about the weather or whatever
That comes with a perfect example few days ago on a local bus an old man (politely) asked a black guy lower the rap music.
He started to freakout about racism and the fact he can't because he is black etc... Just two normal genuine guys and a problem (music on speaker) that becomes racism.
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My comment aimed to say to the girls and blacks that are reading this that not everyone is racist against women and most of us (I hope) are not so please don't think that a small complain/problem is because of that.
I believe the main reason why there's less women in tech is because there's less women in tech(!) It's really hard to jump in a new field where you're the extreme minority. Just as a crude example, imagine getting into nursing school as a guy. That would take a lot of guts. I know because I have a friend who did it and you can easily imagine the kind of comments he's getting all the time from families, strangers, administrators, etc. However, if there were more guys in nursing, it wouldn't be as hard.
You can also think about being gay in San-Francisco right now vs 50 years ago. Yes, a lot of things changed, but part of the reason why it's getting much better is because there simply are more gays, you know you're not alone.
I'm not sure if this was a good example. But women in tech are a bit similar. It's hard to jump in when you're the minority. It's much easier to take the easy route and get a profession where there's already a good ratio of men/women.
Why am I saying all this? Because I think women-only events help girls looking to move into tech understand that there actually are women in tech. If we'd only have mixed-in events, the few women in the crowd would easily be missed by the overwhelming majority of guys.
Someone also posted something about Black, Latino/Hispanic Founders. That's extremely related. A black friend of mine told me that one of the hardest thing about being black in the tech community is that he's almost always the only one. It takes a lot of guts to be the only different one in the room. Some people like that, but for lots of people it's hard. Personally, as an introvert, I'd hate to have everyone in the room looking at me the second I enter the room, all the time.