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Eyechat (neal.fun)
268 points by seatac76 9 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 100 comments



Careful doing this as there's a risk of falling in love, as per this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/style/modern-love-to-fall...



thank you sire, I banished the authwall iframe, removed the gradient and made it scrollable only to realize the article was cut for public in the first place. I wonder how archive.ph got the full version automatically...


> I banished the authwall iframe, removed the gradient and made it scrollable only to realize the article was cut for public in the first place.

If your browser has a Reader Mode, that’s a faster way to get to that scenario, no DOM manipulation needed.

> I wonder how archive.ph got the full version automatically

We have speculation but not certainties.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36060891

Regardless, the fact it works is why it’s so used on HN.


I think love has to be a state that can be worked towards. We wonder the earth (with apps) looking for that perfect person, today. But did noone fall in love in the past, when you had to make do with people from your own village?


In my case the Fear Of Missing Out is terrible.

If I lived in a village of a few hundred people I could be satisfied that my spouse was the best match I could possibly hope for, right? Say half the village is men, then a quarter is too young or too old, then there's just a handful who fall in my range of economic status and attractiveness, and I could be as happy as one could hope with any of them.

I live within reasonable driving distance of probably a literal thousand other people in my age range and of similar attractiveness to me. Whoever I stick with, someone else will be better in one way and worse in another. There might be a hundred dimensions on which to measure someone. Hence my current vacation from monogamy.

I think love, as in the feeling of limerence, obsession, desire to be with someone, desire to "get" something from somebody attractive, is easy to cultivate and always has been. I love someone who said she "falls in love with anyone who makes eye contact with her long enough". Ironically, her definition of love doesn't include texting me every month.

But love as in, doing hard marriage shit for decades until one of you outlives the other... I thought I felt that when I was first with my ex-spouse, now I believe I may be happier if I never feel that.


Different types of love. One is the honeymoon period style love after having met the person once or a few times, the other is the richer, deeper love between beings who know each other well for decades.


It is much easier to fall in love with people you have spent a lot of time with. Same thing with friendship, and I guess rivalry too. The keyword is "propinquity".

In a small village, it is natural, less so in a busy city where you meet with a lot of people, but don't really spend time with them.


I skimmed the article, so maybe that's why I didn't get it. But isn't the headline misleading? They didn't fall in love and there is no indication that doing all of what they did would make someone fall in love - that otherwise wouldn't have in the first place, no?


Penultimate paragraph:

> You’re probably wondering if he and I fell in love. Well, we did. Although it’s hard to credit the study entirely (it may have happened anyway), the study did give us a way into a relationship that feels deliberate. We spent weeks in the intimate space we created that night, waiting to see what it could become.


Another hit from Neal. I wonder (and envy, in a good way) where does he gets the time to work and all this wonderful little games.


there was a highly similar project to this on HN a few months ago.

his previous project (infinite craft) was one of the first things i ever heard people talk about wrt LLMs.

His skill is in execution. I think he finds inspiration from the people around him.


Was this the one you were thinking of? https://eieio.games/nonsense/game-12-stranger-video/


Same. Not just the time, where does he gets the ideas for these games.

Plus, his implementation in a few of them is really exhaustive and polished. Are there any "interns" helping him?


Doesn't he do this full time?


But there's no attempt to monetize anything...

... which is part of why everything seems so polished, they each express an idea without compromise, and when he's done he can just be done.

Someone could make a pretty good museum exhibit from his site.


> But there's no attempt to monetize anything...

Maybe for the pages you tried, but I see ads on these pages:

https://neal.fun/infinite-craft/ (bottom)

https://neal.fun/perfect-circle/ (right)

https://neal.fun/days-since-incident/ (bottom, near the end, above the "you may also like" section)

The last one occasionally fails to show ads due to some javascript error (visible in the console). The same error was also observed on a few other pages with the "you may also like" footer, so my guess is that some ads were supposed to be visible on many pages, but were accidentally hidden due to some configuration issue.


It’s my understanding that Infinite Craft alone is probably so popular that those ads actually bring in decent revenue.

For comparison, at one point slither.io, which is another browser game (not his project) was bringing in $100k/day from one ad unit showed each time the player dies https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-slither-io-goes-viral-games-...


It boggles my mind how valuable advertising is. Who is clicking on that shit and presumably buying those products? I just cannot believe that there were actually $100k/day worth of actual ad conversions, no matter the player count. Yet the money flows so I guess people really do click on that shit and then buy that shit.


Kids love ads, and that game was full of kids.

When I say love, I mean genuinely seek them out. When I was younger, there was no internet in my house, and adverts were the opportunity to step away from the TV and do something else. But I worked as a babysitter in December a few years ago and things have certainly changed a lot.

They would turn on the TV just to watch ads to "find out what I want for Christmas" then turn it off again when the advertising finished and ask for Netflix. When playing games on an iPad or laptop, they would click every ad to open it in a new tab, meaning they could browse products after they were done playing.

The first couple of times I told the kids not to do that, and reported back to the parents after. But turns out most parents liked this behaviour...it made Christmas shopping easier, because their kids would make a list of cheaper things aimed at them, rather than all asking for expensive iPads and PlayStations.


I have to agree $100k/day seems close to unbelievably high, so I had to do some napkin math. In short, it seems it may be possible.

If the avg player dies 10 times, and the ads shown had $.5 CPM, then to make a dollar you'd need only 200 players. So to make $100k/day you'd need 20M daily actives, which is very high but it was really popular around those days.

Is 20M daily actives possible? Yes, because if the average play session is 15 minutes, with that many players you'd have ~200k concurrent players. There's currently a game on Steam called "banana" where you just click on bananas, and that one has 292k concurrents. There are also several Roblox games with that many concurrents, so it checks out.


Nice try, aint' getting my biometrics this time!


Exactly! lol


So this is what it's like dating in the middle east.


Depending on how religiously pious the man is, he may not even look at her eyes.


It must be terrible for all the autistic people. Nothing but eye contact.


What we really need for this is on-screen cameras, so you can actually look someone in the eye. Now, you only look them in the eye when you look away from them at the camera. And when you look them in the eye you're just looking at their mouth.


Ultimately it will likely be easier to simulate eye-contact with live restyling – that is, synthesizing the view from a virtual 'camera' using one or more other cameras nearby – than physically hide a true camera inside a monitor. (Simulation could also signal eye-contact with any point on the screen, not just a single camera location.)

Nvidia, Apple, & others already have software for this, which will only get better.


We’ve needed this – easy, direct eye contact – for quite a long time. I keep waiting for someone to develop it. I think that Apple has a relevant patent, but I don’t know how much content is in the patent, and I’ve never heard that Apple has done anything with it.


Apple uses it for its Eye Contact feature in FaceTime


Apple applies a filter to make fake eye contact.



A guy on Youtube already built this... https://youtu.be/2AecAXinars?si=p42afAGJrUEsHedX



The claim why these aren't adopted is that they aren't high enough quality. Why not include both a standard and undersceen front-facing camera and get the best of both worlds? Could use the under-screen camera for video chat and the standard one for everything else. Or even use some AI algorithm to merge the data from the standard camera with the under-screen one to increase quality.


People want quality selfies more than eye to eye calls


The other problem is that having an under-display camera doesn't stop everyone else's eyes from pointing in the wrong direction, so even if you prioritize eye contact you'd also have to convince all your friends to, as well.


OK but that's how regular humans work too.


Did you read my comment? That's what I was proposing to address. By "standard camera" I meant the standard front facing camera that is high quality.


Ha for important meetings I look into the camera for this reason


Earliest expected release for an Under Display Camera (UDC) iPhone right now is iPhone 18 in 2026:

>According to The Elec, LG Innotek has entered the preliminary development of the UDC, which sits under the display and does not result in a visible hole in the panel when the camera is not in use...

>Apple will then adopt the UDC in 2027's "Pro" iPhone models, according to respected analyst Ross Young of research firm Display Supply Chain Consultant

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/iphone-under-display-ca...


To the people worried about their data being sent to google or whatever (I'm not sure what they're actually worried about) -- the extraction of your eyes is done client side, using a seemingly very well made ML model running on Tensorflow which fits in under 15mb.

The feed of your camera is transmitted "directly" to the person you're looking at (well, no, not really directly, it uses WebRTC, so your data passes through Neal's TURN server, but do you really think Neal wants to take care of properly storing your data and handing it off to advertisers?)


So even after this thought process, it comes down to "do you trust the author" (just like before it)... Not unreasonable to answer either way if you ask me.


Yeah, we should probably add a blockchain to the design so that we don't have to trust anyone.


What, how do you know all this?


Your browser has developer tools which provide views into transmitted files, network requests, etc. You poke around and see how it is implemented using the tools.


after eyechatting with 5 people:

* all people had brown eyes

* all went for funny looks immediately

* 3 of them were shocked and left


Clicking on the link without knowing what it was ahead of time was jarring, even not actively participating.


Not for me, at all. Do you generally avoid eye contact?


Lol no not generally ;)

Just did not expect to be gazing into the windows of someone's soul immediately. The widescreen monitor may have contributed.


Is this the new Omegele where the conversations can't happen? haha


I remember that someone posted a very similar project here some time ago.


Yes, had a deja vu moment there. I guess it was a similar game by someone else.



I made Stranger Video (the linked item)! Neal's a friend of mine and I gave him a (small) hand with eyechat.

We were originally going to collaborate more on eyechat but then One Million Checkboxes[1] blew up and I had to bow out

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40800869


I'd love to know more. Did he reach out to you? Was it the other way around?

What's the difference in two's codebases, if any?


we meet up on occasion to kick around ideas[1] - we're both in nyc and the 'people doing creative tech stuff in nyc' world is not that big. I think(?) we first met right after I made stranger video; we've batted around ideas about it for a while. Pretty sure this idea was from him!

There's probably 0 overlap in the codebase - 100% (or close to it) of the code is from Neal (the only code I wrote for this was a very early prototype that cropped out just the eyes, instead of the bar you see now). I sent him a couple of snippets from my codebase early on but mostly just gave pointers on my tech stack / chatted about some of the problems I ran into. Given the size of Neal's audience the default scale for a project he launches is pretty big!

Anyway, mostly wanted to clarify that the similarities between this and stranger video are intentional :)

[1] this is where the idea for one million checkboxes actually came from!


Always lovely to know how these things work in the background.

I love it when the web is used for something fun and not selling another subscription service.

Sent you an email btw, I had some thoughts that I wanted to talk about


It's the eyebrow-inclination detection that really makes this a work of art. Being able to turn a serious stare into a serious aspect ratio is power I didn't know I needed.


this is giving me massive anxiety


For the shy and curious, you can use OBS as a virtual webcam. This is a good option. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQHJX9rMp8. Guy keeps winking at me and then rolling his eyes when the video doesn't respond.


I would love to read about tech details behind this.


You all are comfortable just enabling your camera for some random site so it can capture your face?


As much as I enjoy neal's little games, I'm not going to be trying this one, unfortunately.


Perhaps that's an idea for a next game: match people by "how much info are you willing to provide".

Present options to pick a username, email, social media, live text, live audio stream, live video, health data from a smart watch, teenage diary, ...

It already works in some way; e.g. even if one person has both a HN account and a Snapchat account, they would use these to talk to different people.


Already exists, demo by some dutch(?) privacy expert on how much info he can get out of you and just from your picture.

I showed it to a colleague from marketing as a 'look how bad up this is!' They asked 'cool, can we do that too?' sigh


my match will get tmi


You know, someone can also capture your face while you just walking on the street?

Given, the different people require different levels of privacy.


Yes, inverse profiling works this way. A group with known individuals communicates constantly with someone who ain't using FB or Insta. You still know this person quite well, easily identifiable, maybe lacking some information but more than needed.

This is also why privacy has been a game over for decades. Ten years ago or so, friends boasted that they don't use Gmail due to privacy concerns but happily email folks with Gmail accounts.

One group picture is sufficient, you can work from there.


One pertinent difference is that a web property may correlate your captured biometric data with whatever they get out of your connection, making entity resolution much easier and more valuable.

ELI5 when you visit online they have a handle on you.


No, I just went straight to the HN comments after seeing it requires camera permissions ;-)


Yes, I had the same question popping up.

On a meta-level, this is the essence of social engineering: creating a seemingly harmless and fun distraction to get what you may really want.

"Consent to give me pictures of your face and movements" as a pop-up would probably spoil the fun a bit.


This site wants to share your cookies to at least 662 “venders” and they are being dishonest with the “legitimate interest” scam. The creator clearly does not care about nor respect their users/visitors.


It's so wild to me that people tolerate this. I just close the tab or 'reader' whenever I see that type of thing, but I know very few others who do the same.


I mean, if a website claims to have tens if not close to a hundred "legitimate interest" cookies I'm reasonably sure they are living of wildly invasive ad tracking. I immediately close these websites just as you do.

It would be swell if more of the web was made by passionate people to share knowledge for free. I know this is a privileged attitude as creating content takes time which is not free. But some of the best web sites are the ones without monetisation. We need a better monetisation system for the web that is based on people paying for content instead of people being sold as user data.


yes


Sure am. This site is a lot more trustworthy than the no doubt 100 cameras I walk past each day that capture my face without my permission.


sure, have you ever gone outside? thousands of cameras everywhere in any populated place, so why not?


Yes, I am.


Why worry? It only captures the eyes.


It has to capture everything first to figure out where the eyes are...


One could wear a paper mask/visor to only show the eyes. (Though the eye extraction feature might malfunction then?)


The extraction of the eyes is done client side.


False


Why do you care? You likely give your entire life story to Google? What do you think he’s going to do with your face data?


The name took me back to a video chat programme I remember using with my friends in the very early 2000s called Eyeball Chat.


It's not working for me at all, did it get hugged to death?

I just see a black screen with "Eyes from $LOCATION" under it.


"Got Eem" - Worldcoin

*for those that aren't familiar with Worldcoin.... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/07/technology/worldcoin-iris...


I know it's in jest but does worldcoin work with any regular phone camera?

I assumed it needs some sort of closeup high definition image



Congrats! Your eyes are ours now. - them


Thanks for instilling a new fear in me today


Suure some random site that hijacks your back button, doesn't talk at all what it is and wants my camera permissions


exactly! a little explanation please? i dont turn my camera on for just anything!!! who am i chatting with - the nsa?


Worst, advertising data miners if you look at the cookie consent form.


Funny


This is actually pretty neat.


This is great!


...probably make it top of the internet too.


How is this not a torture method? Do neurotypicals think this is fun? I'm getting anxiety just thinking about it.




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