> especially when there isn't even a hint of anti-competitiveness by apple
from the article: "Apple also prevented Spotify and other companies from informing customers on their phones that they could avoid the commission – and get a better deal – simply by signing up on Spotify’s website."
what the justification? that it harms user experience? because "our platform our rules" doesn't trump "our country our rules".
Private companies can censor information on their platform right? If there is a law complelling speech I agree with you but short of that, you don't expect burgerking to advertise mcdonalds has a better deal in their food right? Or to allow competitors to promote on their real estate?
Every product decision is innovation. Being able to configure hardware the way you want without having to comply with government b.s. or design new communication protocols or software systems without the gov dictating how you do that is pro-innovation right? Are you saying people don't make new hardware or software?
Both, people who work with the resources of companies. Individuals can't design and manufacture smartphones. I am not a "companies are people too" person, I am actually heavily pro-regulation but like anything else fairness and justice trumps all. If android and other vendors can't compete because of apple or apple and other vendors collude against people I see your sentiment but I am very much for fairness even for the rich and powerful as well as companies not just people.
Why not? It's one company's vision. I happen to hate PWAs, why are you forcing my usage of PWAs and USB-c? You have alternatives but I can't have mine? So much for liberty.
EU doesn't have a silicon valley for these exact reasons. When EU is churning out disruptive tech and paying people in tech what they deserve the tell me how their nonsensical laws and attitudes does not inhibit innovation. The problem now is they are using their position to force their views on multinationals that serve the whole planet.
I wonder why europeans are not able to vote with their wallet? Or perhaps it's sneaky politicians distracting you with this stuff so you don't get them to fix the real issues.
> It's truly a shame how so many on HN are anti-innovation, especially when there isn't even a hint of anti-competitiveness by apple. I mean Apple does not even have a majority market monopoly in Europe.
It's also truly a shame to read that enforcement of rules is put under the umbrella of "anti-innovation". As if innovation should be pursued by whatever means necessary, in a weird neo-Machiavellian way of "the ends justify the means".
There are rules, a case was brought to be judged based on these rules and the company infringed on them. We shouldn't let innovation trump every other aspect of society, I surely do not want to live in a place where companies can do whatever they want in name of "innovation". Look at how the US turned out, basically being ruled by corporations who defy whatever rule is placed upon them to tame the beast.
Rent-seeking on the App Store is not an innovation, it's feudalism, Apple owns the only place possible to submit an application for all non-jailbroken iOS users, with the control of digital land it enforces a 30% rent on subscriptions sold through these apps, what is the innovation here? At the same time they can offer Apple Music without charging themselves a 30% that goes to a competitor.
I'm tired of this thought-terminating cliche about innovation, companies shouldn't accrue more power than what they already have, which they gained a lot more since the 80s, and that is already unhealthy to societies.
I wonder how this kind of amount is decided, a percentage of the profit they have earn from the decision perhaps ? what is the metrics ? It seems enormous but it's kind of fair when you profit from a monopoly position in an economical infrastructure.
I have no idea how this legal stuff work but it sure does seem fascinating.
does this mean I'll be able to create my own App Store app as I like it or there will be 5000 pages
agreement how to do this "properly" and such apps simply will not be allowed on Apple store for "not compliance" or it'll be "open season" for all now?
Knowing Apple there might be former, not the latter... until 3 years
later there will be another verdict.. :D
I knew it! This is what they were after from the start. Milk a US company for that fine cash! And make it look like they were looking out for consumers who have no shortage of options in any product vertical apple operates in.
If there weren't much more important global issues happening, why this isn't resulting in a tradewar with EU should be a news headline.
I hope Apple realizes that they need to curate inferior products for EU users so they can keep the market. But I gotta say, apple is bending backwards, even getting rid of the objectively superior lightning for USB-C (consumers get inferior features) and they still managed to fine them.
The spotify is superior and more popular than apple music, so apple is already losing. If you look hard enough and long enough at someone's activity you will find a reason to fine them. Equal before the law means equal scrutiny as well.
> even getting rid of the objectively superior lightning for USB-C (consumers get inferior features) and they still managed to fine them.
If it was objectively superior then Apple should have standardized it with USB-IF. They didn't, and rightfully every single OEM (and some world governments) told them to pound sand. Lighting was inferior to USB on-paper, you don't even need to compare the connectors to understand why Lightning was literally outlawed some places.
It is a shame that Apple behaved that way, but they chose to make Lightning a proprietary serial connector. You seem very desperate to blame Europe but methinks you're frustrated for the wrong reasons.
Apple doesn't have to standardize anything, that limits them because future optimizations and changes would break the standard. It takes several years for usb standards to be ratified. If apple finds a way to charge phones 2x faster but usb-c standard would be violated what should they do? How does that benefit consumers?
Lightning is objectively better. The wear and tear factor is for the cable side to be damaged but with usb-c the cable side connector is hard to damage but on the device end, the connector part that goes into the cable side female connector wears and tears. If it gets damaged you need a new device, if lightning gets damaged you need a new cable. This is one reason apple devices lasted longer than android.
Because of europe's decisions features I like are being taken away and europe can use android or subsidize the european nokia. People across an ocean with plenty of choices took away my choice so they can give the middle finger to the big bad american company.
> If apple finds a way to charge phones 2x faster but usb-c standard would be violated what should they do?
Make it work with USB-C? If your "solution" to fast-charging is "break the fucking charging protocol" then you probably shouldn't be allowed around electronics in the first place. They can charge their Macbooks with USB-C just fine, there's no reason it won't work on iPhones. Trust me. USB-C is rated up to 240w in power delivery, Apple designed half the fucking spec themselves.
> Lightning is objectively better.
You'll have to find a way to be happy being wrong about this one. For one, Lightning has MFi: Made for iPhone is a meaningless standard. Apple has not justified it in any way, and it only exists to charge manufacturers a fee for shipping iPhone-compatible hardware. This alone makes it inferior to USB-C in every way, and was the basis of the EU's objection to the Lightning protocol. It is an illegal anticompetitive standard because of arbitrary software limitations Apple imposes. If you think that's innovation, then I'm glad you're disappointed.
Lightning is a better connector, but it's strictly the worse serial protocol and cable choice. It's more expensive, less capable and ubiquitous, and doesn't diverge from the USB-C spec in any way meaningful enough to be separated. If you're any more familiar with this topic than someone who's just watched the "Apple: Explained" video then this should be glowingly obvious.
> People across an ocean with plenty of choices took away my choice so they can give the middle finger to the big bad american company.
Apple can still sell Lightning iPhones in the United States. As a matter of fact, it was Apple's decision to impliment USB-C on all iPhones going forward. Almost like, it was a smart idea with practically zero downsides or feasible implimentation issues.
Almost as if Apple will fuck over their customers at every corner in the name of profit, unless otherwise directed. Thank God for regulators, if you want to empathize Shkreli and Bankman-Fried then be my guest.
What? Do you know how this work? Apple won't pay the full fine (probably 1 to 5%) if they manage to wiggle an apology and permit ALL app editors to put a 'if you pay on our website, without Apple Pay, the cost would be X.YY'.
Spotify is just the company who complained and have enough lawyers to understand anticompetitive law, but any ruling on that will benefit all app editors.
And frankly, most Apple users will keep paying the 30% tax anyway, it's not enough to loose the convenience.
Forbiding truthful, legal speech on your platform is allowed, but not if preventing it is anti-business and anti-competition.
I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system?
"I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system? "
This is also ycombinator, and thus hacker culture is an means to be exploited by investors who are looking to grow unicorns. Such investors won't tolerate any restrictions on their path to growth as it threatens their entire value proposition.
So, we arrive at the natural conclusion: hackernews is only partially aware of its own narrative dissonance. This is how topics like this one can have hackers rooting for underdogs that will never get a meaningful win out of Apple. While others cheer on Apple and defend its practices as they see themselves temporarily embarrassed founders of the next trillion dollar company and they can't have any roadblocks to that growth.
And then there are some unaffiliated with either hacker or founder culture and their opinions on this topic are naturally as varied as anyone else's.
There used to be a site posted here every so often that would take the best examples of this and the snark was so on-point. I donated to it but think eventually the creator moved on.
Every once in a while an old 4-chan thread will resurface that is another perfect mirror.
I personally almost never used to post as someone would have already said what I'd intended. Now I feel sometimes like the one who flew over the cuckoo's nest.
Am I the old man shouting at clouds, is the site demo skewing further, both? Neither? May as well ask how many licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop.
Edit- comments aren't usually deleted here I wonder if an old-fashioned comment scrape would do, but how to collate and what would even be the separators?
