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One of the frustrating things about modernity as a westerner is that I don't feel the need for the standard of living that all of these incredible-but-dangerous advances in modern science and technology have granted us. I don't need faux-stone counters cut by Central Americans, I don't to eat as varied a diet as is available, I don't need to travel anywhere over 45 mph or internationally, I don't need A/C on 95% of summer days, I don't need all of the plastic packaging that stuff is delivered in (although I often need or want the stuff it delivers). I am completely ready to live in a slowed-down, less-commodified, lower-capital environment, so I save money and am quite comfortable, but what can I do about everyone else? I'm not going to move the needle in greater society with my own choices.

In the ideological camp with me are the "degrowthers", who seem to be more common in Europe than in the US, but they all seem to be pitching borderless, stateless surveillance communism that relies on the same ultra high-speed high-tech plastic-based international-shipping constructs we have now, except with "green" energy instead of regular energy.




I want to trade all the fancy shit I don't need for a ten hour work week and more time to do what I want, but annoyingly we've made artificial scarcities of essentials like housing, and codified forty hour weeks as the norm, making this hard.

You're right that it's more common in Europe. When I go back to the US life feels so insanely gluttonous. Driving a studio apartment three miles to get a coffee is lunacy


We could definitely build more housing. But "Meditations on Moloch" suggests that Malthusian traps might be inevitable. Why work ten hours when a political enemy like Russia or China might work 40 hours or 80 hours and then nuke you?


An effective nuclear deterrent is very low cost compared to an effective conventional military force. With nuclear weapons you can credibly threaten to kill 20 million people in $enemy_country [1] at a cost smaller than that needed to maintain a crewed air force of moderate capability. In theory, global military spending could drop by 90% with equal-or-better prevention of state-on-state warfare if more nations replaced conventional military spending with spending on nuclear weapons.

Unfortunately, nuclear deterrence only works against rational actors, by rational actors. It doesn't prevent irrational human behavior or accidents. So a heavily nuclear armed world would probably see a downturn in violence between states until one fateful year when an accident or miscalculation escalates to kill more people than every war of the past 200 years combined.

[1] Terms and conditions apply: only valid for countries with population greater than 20 million.


> Driving a studio apartment three miles to get a coffee is lunacy

It sure is. I have a cheap drip coffee maker that I drink from all day, at a cost of a few cents a cup. Dirt cheap.


A few cents a cup?! Where do you buy your coffee? I buy coffee at about 12 bucks a pound. A pound makes about ten carafes of 4 cups (tbh, I use the term cup loosely, because a mug for me is more like 1.5 to 2 actual measuring cups) each. I get to more like 30 to 40 cents a cup. It seems like there might be potential for major cost savings.


I buy 12 oz bags of ground coffee for $7.99 last time I bought it, which is up from $5.99 it used to be.

That'll last for a couple weeks, at 12 cups (actual cups) a day.

Coffee is my cheapest vices. I love coffee. When the pandemic hit, I stocked up on coffee.


Aha, maybe I'm putting dramatically too many grounds into my coffee, haha.


Bloody hell, I live in a famously high cost country (Norway) and I can get perfectly acceptable coffee for half that price.


Some of those things are fads, other are useful things. Some things you cook work better one some counters (my current marble is great for rolling out scones, for everything else cheap Formica is just as good). A varied diet is more interesting (to me!), and probably provides better nutrients (I have no idea what you eat). I don't need to travel 45mph, but my time is valuable so I want to travel 450,000mph on all trips (without all the annoying physics effects from that speed).

What you can do is live the life you want. Many people talk like you, but never make changes in their own life. A few do make such choices, and many after 10 years realize they didn't actually want the things they did and return to modern life.


Degrowthers are poison, and a big reason why Germany's economy is contracting this year while the rest of the EU and the USA are growing.


I think the people currently named degrowthers are bad for the health of society, but the word "degrowth" doesn't necessarily refer to a policy that shouldn't be looked at more closely. Stuff like re-onshoring manufacturing, limiting immigration and consumption, cutting government benefits, and transitioning the country to a slower population growth, less GDP-obsessed living policy might help.




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