I was walking into a dark room and I turned on the light, I turned around to close the door and noticed the giant 3” spider right above the light (I know everyone in Australia thinks it’s adorable I found an itty-bitty spider - but 3” is big in the US). I think it’s a brown recluse so I get someone to toss me a broom and I kill it. While cleaning that up I get a good look at the legs and realize there is green in addition to brown, so it was just a grass spider, not poisonous at all. But still I’m glad my hand missed it when I turned on the light, and I didn’t walk into its web late at night while going to the bathroom in the dark.
I'm a little bit arachnophobic sometimes, and one of the most stomach turning moments I recall was going into the garage barefoot and having a spider the size of a small mouse run across the floor and bang into my foot. I've run into a few more specimens since then, usually ones that fall into the laundry sink and can't get back out, and I think they're some kind of wolf spider. Apparently they bite, but they're not venomous so you just get a nasty infection. [Shudders]
I feel this page would be much more amusing if it just continued forever and got more and more absurd identifications of "possible brown recluse" as you went down.
>got more and more absurd identifications of "possible brown recluse" as you went down.
"If the spider has brown fur but weighs about sixty pounds, has a wagging tail and is licking you with its tongue, you might actually have discovered a labradoodle..."
The /r/spiders subreddit likes to meme on all the people asking for things that are clearly not recluses, you can find some entertaining ones by using the search: (obvious cw for spiders)
It looks like a rare type, along with perfect condition and original matching, so it all lines up - and that price is a "we'll sell when we want to" price.
That would be in poor taste! These spiders are dangerous, identification is potentially life-saving. Not a great place to mix in humorous misinformation.
@recluseornot on Twitter was run by some very good entomologists I know. They had to stop because of the workload. What someone needs to do, perhaps, is to use that corpa of images and responses as the start of the all-powerful AI.
Better yet, have a startup fund a real-life entomologist for 2-5 years, remote is possible, to keep identifying pictures in this type of forum, in return for that relatively paltry sum (maybe 70k/year + 10k for scope + camera setup for more detailed work, + 15k for operating a year), you'd get a far richer dateset to "commercialize".
Yes, I know spiders are not insects, I'm an entomologist too.
> What someone needs to do, perhaps, is to use that corpa of images and responses as the start of the all-powerful AI.
This already exists and is pretty good at what it does. It's called iNaturalist. It attempts to identify all living things and in my experience gets about 80% there. Experts will also occasionally come along and more accurately ID things.
On top of this, the submitted data is used for scientific research which is amazing!
It looks like they’re still active as of 20min ago [0]. Super handy account. Just scrolling through the pics gives you a much better sense for identifying them. I suspect I’ve seen one or two in my yard, but now I think I have a better idea of what to look for.
Great! I know there was a hiatus at one point. It's definitely a cool feed. I worked with one of the OPs there, might have to send him a PM to see what's up.
Twitter via scientists can be nice. There are a good number of people who adhere to "just the science" and post interesting/beautiful things from their labs/work.
The problem I have is that, no, the spiders in my bathroom do not have any of these features. I don't know what kind of Loxosceles they are, but I am pretty sure they are some kind of Loxosceles. I do put them outside whenever I see them because they make me nervous, but they also seem to be generally uninterested in biting me.
On the other hand, my house also seems to be home to a thriving Scutigera population. They eat spiders, right?
Most spider species can't be identified at species level without a microscope, but if you can post the link to a good photo here maybe we could take a look to it.
Nah step one is to look for the disqualifying features that are easy to see from a distance: striped legs, spines, conspicuous web, multicolored abdomen
Step two is to run away if it's still not disqualified because even with the helpful photos I couldn't figure out where its eyes are and I'm not getting that close to an actual spider, ridiculous
Ugh, the article was so hard to understand, I actually had to read certain parts twice to get if he was talking what is a recluse or what isn't in that line or paragraph. I think it is a bad idea to interleave those definitions, and same with pictures. I have no objections about hard to understand objects, but this was probably intended as a quick emergency guide for a commoners.
Completely agreed. This is a common type of page associated with extension units. They are written by, and for those who are doing pest-control style work, for example. There is much room for improvement, including better diagnostic tools, clear choice-based keys, etc. There are actually very few people who can accurate diagnose these critters down to species, let alone "recluse". Those people depend on tools (6 eyes are very small), morphological knowledge, etc. There is a real need for new, purpose-built page whose content is provided for specific reasons (this is here to answer question X to audience Y via information I, if you use it for other things YRMV). Getting scientists to understand these needs is tough, they are almost always talking to other scientists, which is completly fine and necessary, but branching out is hard. A classic UI/UX problem.
And by blockchain you mean its true evolution, which is totally and completely not a blockchain/nft/loot box, at all, really, the "silken highway". Once you touch it, you're stuck, vibrations you give off as you struggle to unsubscribe transmit to all suckers^d others, also alerting the central spider-mother (from which the highway grows, may she never falter) who grows the inescapable network of sticky threads via a 5% take of your offering through her bit-rotting venom.
I had my fill of exposure to Brown Recluse spiders in high school biology, including one big fucker that was stupid enough to run up my arm. I trapped it and put it in alcohol for making the mistake of making contact with my body.
I was a teachers aide for that biology teacher at the time, and he was disappointed that I had managed to kill one of the biggest specimens he had ever seen. But I didn't get in any actual trouble or anything.
These days, anything that vaguely looks like a brown recluse will just die a very fast and over complete death. There may be squish left to mop up after I'm done, but not much more.
This is easy, and doesn't even require a website. Rule of thumb: All spiders are Black Widows, and those that aren't are Brown Recluses. All spiders are deadly poisonous, and those that aren't are deadly poisonous. All spiders hunt and eat humans.
Obviously, this is a joke, but I have an irrational fear of spiders that I inherited from my father, and have passed to my now-adult son. We live in southwestern Virginia (Virginia Tech), and have a nice variety of creepy spiders that all manage to look deadly. My fear has gotten worse as I have gotten older. This is actually useful to me. Thank you to the OP.
I have a quick story. I was working from home during covid, sitting on my couch in front of my laptop. I was alone...when out of my peripheral I picked up the biggest wolf spider I have ever seen comically wobble-running, his body unusually high, and legs seemingly drawn in, running from the kitchen to...UNDER THE LIVING ROOM COUCH.
And there he stayed for three days, under the couch and in my mind. I did not sit on the couch for two days. Instead I worked from my bedroom. Occasionally I would sneak downstairs to watch the couch. I could not force myself to sit on the couch. I was petrified, and I hated it.
Just before lunch on the third day I soaked cotton balls in a smelly oil and tossed them under the couch. I read online that spiders did not like this, and that he would certainly vacate the area.
As I waited, my son came home for lunch. He was upstairs in his room, and I was downstairs in the kitchen when it happened. Around the corner came the same comically wobbling monster...running frantically...and I was shoeless and frozen! I heard myself yelling for my son, "Tyler! Tyler! Tyler! I NEED YOUR HELP!" He came barreling down the stairs not knowing what to expect, and came face to face to the beast. I could tell by his expression that he was also creeped out, but at least he was wearing shoes. "KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!" I yelled (realizing what a baby I was being, but unable to be an adult).
He grabbed a magazine and smacked it, immediately killing it, and ending my nightmare....mostly. I still get chills thinking about it.
If this sounds overly dramatic to you I agree, but imagine being that afraid of something so small and harmless. I have an unreasonable fear of these things. I am a thinking giant and can easily destroy them, but instead I live in fear of them.
I used to be severely arachnophobic, but accidentally cured my fear through a prescription to propranolol which I was taking for general anxiety, not arachnophobia, but I've since learned it's been successfully used for treating arachnophobia along with other phobias.
I was hiking with friends one day, then my friend pointed out there was a spider on my shoulder. I let it crawl on my finger, and then it dawned on me that I wasn't afraid of it at all. The feeling of no longer being afraid of something that I previously couldn't even be in the same room with was so thrilling I started seeking out spiders to handle. I've since learned a lot more about spiders in general, so I know now how to handle them in a safe way. I now have a pet Western black widow spider (which I never handle without gloves, and only handle to clean her enclosure), and delight in giving the spiders in my yard some water to drink during dry spells.
I know phobias can't be rationalized away, but in the interest of giving you a reason to work on your phobia: spiders generally don't have any interest in hurting us. Even for the medically significant ones of North America, bites rarely kill -- a black widow hasn't killed anyone in a few decades out here, and antivenom is rarely used when patients seek treatment.
It's pretty difficult to induce one to bite, since its venom is mainly for its prey. When endangered, their preference is to run, which makes sense, because biting won't be enough to incapacitate most things trying to eat you fast enough to save you when you're that small.
Everything you have written is completely logical. My brain knows that most spiders are harmless, and have zero interest in humans, and that dying from a spider bite is rare.
On one hand I think they are beautiful and fascinating, and on the other hand I am completely repulsed at the thought of a spider being in my house. Not only that, but if I see a spider before or while I am eating I am unable to eat. I know how irrational that is.
We generally leave our porch light off so as not to attract bugs (because they are food for spiders), but recently it was left on for whatever reason. When my son opened the door a medium-sized wolf spider ran inside and stopped. Just as my son was about to step on it I noticed that it was a mother carrying many baby spiders on her back. Stepping on her could have been a disaster.
I watched as he coaxed her into an empty cereal box. I was close enough to see her babies moving and shifting on her back. Once secured inside the box we had a choice to make. Set her free out in the yard somewhere or into the toilet. After a brief conversation we decided that a watery grave would prevent her offspring from entering our house in the future.
Events like this take up too much space in my head. This is the only thing I am afraid of. I am not afraid of snakes and the usual other suspects. Just spiders. I am mostly unafraid of granddaddy longlegs spiders, and will sometimes liberate them, sans a leg or two, from feline captivity.
Anyway, I do not even remember what my point was now..but your experience is certainly interesting to me as I have, at times, considered learning my way out of this fear I have. I really admire that you are now able to handle these little creatures and even enjoy them! I would love to feel unafraid instead of literally terrified. I am actually sweating now after recalling that spider incident above.
I feel for that poor wolf spider! I'm always jealous of folks who've had the experience of seeing a wolf spider mom with her babies. They're about as harmless as it gets for humans. But I get that it's more of a physiological response than a rational one, so no worries and no judgement for your response.
> You won't be able to tell what it is (and please don't send them to me for identification because due to shift in the California economy, I no longer provide these services) but you will at least know that it is not a recluse spider.
But a flat spider can't save you from Zika, Malaria, Yellow Fever, Rift Valley fever, Dengue, West Nile or Saint Louis Encephalitis, neither can save our pets from dog heartworm
So we need to sign some peace treaty with them, because the world would be a really dangerous place without spiders.
There are like 3000 spider species and less than 30 are dangerous for us. This is a really small percentage. the truth s that most spiders will break its fangs if would try to fight against our skin cheratin.
So maybe when we see the next spider at home we should identify it, realize that is a calm inoffensive species (99% of probabilities), give it some cm in a quiet corner and tell the children that is its personal friendly bodyguard monster (but unable to grant spiderman superpowers) and should be left alone doing the job.
Of course I would not advice to have brown recluse pets, but the spiders that eat brown recluses and will never ever quit their small corner in the window? well, is a better deal than having roundworms swimming in your lymph. Think about it.
I mostly find myself thankful that this site does not support embedded images. Makes it one of the only places an arachnophobe like myself can calmly click into a discussion thread with a title like this!
I got a few spider bites in the Peruvian Amazon. The spiders look exactly like those recluse spiders on the photos. They are really fast and they can jump. The photos I found online of what recluse spider bites look like matched my wound that refused to heal for 2 months until I started taking antibiotics... Now they look like a small bruise.
When I occasionally want to identify a spider I see I find it a bit sad that you can find lots of pages with information on spiders that people are afraid of but not much information on random spiders unless they're something particularly interesting like orb weavers
I'm not sure if there are just too many species or if just nobody cares?
Well we as a species are probably more interested in whether it's really a tiger in the bushes that's out to get us and not in that tiger's family tree.
There are some variously-imperfect methods to ID things that you can take photos of.
The Seek app by iNaturalist has pretty decent AI to identify plants and animals. It can limit itself to broader IDs such as “wasp family” if it doesn’t find enough characteristics. It can also be wildly off sometimes in its specific IDs because it’s image recognition.
There are also loads of dedicated Facebook groups specifically for ID. I know that some of the plant and mushroom ones are very good, I suspect spider-focused groups are similarly enthusiastic. They can also be wildly off, with the added component of traded insults between different people who are all certain they are each correct, and the others are all idiots “who wouldn’t know a recluse from a redback even after they got bit.” This could be a pro or a con, depending on what you find entertaining.
State extensions are going to be the most reliable, and will likely have the most info on the obscure local wildlife. I don’t know how willing they are to ID from photos though; it may vary from place to place. They may want you to capture one and send it in.
This would make an actually interesting (and potentially useful) captcha system. "Pick the spiders without spines"..."pick the spiders that are only one color"...etc. Call it either "creepy captcha" or "creature captcha".
In my second-hand experience, the best way to identify them is a couple of days after the fact, when a circle of skin starts to turn brown and mushy.
I don't know what "extremely rare" means (especially in Arkansas, where a brown recluse seems about as likely as any other spider), but I had a girlfriend and a best friend get bites the same year that got very ugly, especially since the girlfriend's bite was on her neck and was misdiagnosed the first time she saw someone for it.
"The 2019 Annual Report of the American Association of Poison Control Centers recorded 790 individual exposures to brown recluse spiders, with 174 moderate outcomes, 24 major outcomes, and 0 dealths."
> the best way to identify them is a couple of days after the fact, when a circle of skin starts to turn brown and mushy
That sounds like a really bad way to identify them. I'd much prefer to identify them at a distance. (You may have been referring to understanding an existing bite, but that's different from the article.)
> That sounds like a really bad way to identify them. I'd much prefer to identify them at a distance. (You may have been referring to understanding an existing bite, but that's different from the article.)
haha, only serious (currently suffering from a 2-month-past recluse spider bite wound, going to the wound clinic next week cause it’s not healing very well).
yes, the progression of the bite wound is unmistakeable.
Here's the thing: If I am in a country that harbours these abominations of nature and I see a suspicious spider near or even inside my home, I'll kill it. I'll drop the whole weight of the "sapiens" part of my species on that toxic creature. No quarter given or expected.
There's something very deep inside me that tells me that beings with way more than the usual amount of legs are to be feared and I trust that part of me.
There are two (2) species of spider in the US that are "dangerous": Brown recluse and black widow.
And that's it. There is no number three. You only need to learn to identify those two, because no other spider's bite is medically significant in the US unless you happen to be allergic (which some fraction of people are, to be fair).
Half your work is done because you probably already know what a black widow looks like; they are quite distinctive. (They also tend not to hang out in human living spaces like brown recluses do. Black widows prefer garages and barns.)
Both species are quite shy and rarely bite people. Most bites happen when the spider gets trapped between clothing and skin and it bites because it thinks it's about to be crushed. Neither species will chase you or jump on you.
There are spiders that will jump on you. They're called jumping spiders. They are harmless, quite cute, and make good pets. Unlike most spiders, jumpers have excellent eyesight and they will chase a laser beam like a cat.
I’ve been told that spiders can be beneficial for getting rid of (i.e. eating) other pests - actual insects. Obviously if I find a spider in my living space, I’ll relocate it outside. Since almost spiders, in the US, are virtually harmless, they’re pretty easy to move with a cup/tissue/paper/whatever.
I am fully with you, but I regret to admit that given the multitudes of insects and arachnids in this world, the "usual amount of legs" is probably more than six.
I live a only a few miles from from downtown Austin in a home that is about 10 years old. We frequently find brown recluse spiders indoors and in the garage; less frequently I find black widow spiders. They have left us alone so far even though I do kill them once I identify them (if they are too young and small to assess accurately I don't give them the benefit of doubt).
Spiders aren't the only wildlife to be concerned about here in Central Texas, scorpions and giant centipedes also wander around the house. Fortunately, the poisonous snakes of central Texas (rattlesnake, copperhead, coral snake, and water moccasin) haven't ventured inside. Of course we have killer bees and fire ants in the area, but you can usually outrun them--if you're in good shape. The only poisonous creature found in the US that isn't found here is the Gila monster. The good news is we don't have Grisly bears, maybe the mountain lions scare them away.
Saw the headline and thought "oh here we go with the myths." I'm a spider and rattlesnake wrangler in my spare time and almost everything I know about spiders comes from one of the premier arachnologists in the US: Rick Vetter.
And this is his site! So no myths here; just good science.
As I know that there are some NASA people here, I was wondering... just curiosity
Do the NASA staff receive training in spiders and other alien-like creatures from this planet? A course about basic arachnid communication at least?
In the (unlikely) case that they don't, I think that they definitely should study arachnids and molluscs at least.
Is unlikely that alien life will be just common english-talking people, with blue make-up and some ear prostetics. If we can't tolerate spiders at the earth that only bite in self defense, how we would communicate effectively with aliens? (And being illustrated about the whole kind of traps created by earth predators is always handy)
Just about everyone in California knows to avoid Brown recluse spiders, and shake your sillies before print them on, such that university of California/Riverside put out this PSA. As relevant as identification, they forgot to mention that you will never encounter a brown recluse spider in California.[1]
Just last year, my uncle received a recluse bite which occurred in Sacramento, California leaving a necrosis wound so the given map is evidently a general map.
To be fair, he did move from the Mojave Desert region so it could have been boxes and moved. Much like the mass Air Force personnel moving to Sacramento (Mather AFB) from North Carolina air base potentially taking North Carolina Wolf spiders during its UC Davis identified 1964-65 introduction period.
The ML model is an entomologists/arachnologist trained for 5+ years, if not decades. Start training with data from iNaturalist, but then realize they are already using AI detection models, and they note they are far from accurate, and they don't anticipate them ever being accurate.
Part of the problem is you need scopes/cameras with resolution for things under 2mm. People don't have those, nor the expertise to setup the light, etc. to take the pictures required to diagnose them. Then they need precise angles to take the shots at, etc.
Not impossible, and could certainly eliminate a whole suite of things that are not, but at the end of the day you're going to need a salaried person to make the final call if you want to commercialize this and not get sued... I suspect.
I live in Kansas City, MO. They're everywhere around here. Have found them in my house several times and even been bitten by them. I guess I'm just lucky but I never had an overly bad reaction to their venom. (knock on wood)
> Have found them in my house several times and even been bitten by them. I guess I'm just lucky but I never had an overly bad reaction to their venom.
I think you may just be lucky, they may dry bite, or maybe there’s some folks with antibodies. I have a 2-month-old recluse bite wound on my leg, it’s currently an open wound about 1.5 inches across. Been through debridement, 3 courses of antibiotics, etc. Appointment at a wound clinic next week to see if there’s anything can be done.
I too have been bitten multiple times in the past with no serious effect, just a black spot that healed slowly and left a tiny acne-like scar.
It's fairly common for a family in recluse country to discover a nest of hundreds of them behind the headboard of their bed that has been there for years, and yet nobody ever got bitten.
I've unfortunately been bitten twice in the past 4 months. Its made me very aware of their presence in my home. I've developed a weird fascination with them since. They're cute in their own way but that doesn't stop me from shuttling them out the door.
I had a brown recluse crawl across my computer keyboard. I was pretty shocked, so I got some photos. I told the exterminator and he said nah you didn’t no way. So I showed him the picture and he said well that’s a recluse.
The main concern of course is that a child will try to pick it up.
As someone who had to identify Chilean recluses (Loxosceles laeta, arguably the most dangerous one), I think that lack of spines and walking speed (they can be quite fast) are the most frequent criteria I’ve used to check them.
I used to find black widows frequently near a melaleuca tree which was near my side door, in south Florida. Day and night. Not infrequently in the house. They always seemed passive, but I still ushered them outdoors.
I have yet to identify a recluse with any confidence, although a friend of a friend lost his arm after one crawled upward from his hand to shoulder, biting repeatedly as it moved. I think delayed treatment was the ultimate cause of severity.
I don't know about that, but they love wood. I find them from time to time in the corners of my fence. Only about one a year. Once I found thousands when the eggs hatched but they quickly dispersed. An interesting thing about Black Widows is that their webs are really strong and unorganized, so I usually see that before finding the spider, which is pretty shy.
Yeah, their webs are pretty distinctive. Besides wood piles, I've found them in brick piles and folded up shade umbrellas a lot. They seem to enjoy materials that can hold moisture without quite reaching the levels of "damp".
Biggest I ever saw was in an umbrella while I was de-winterizing the pool that I worked summers at. Was absentmindedly going down the rows, opening up umbrellas when I happened to look up and shrieked. Thing's abdomen had to be at least an inch, maybe an inch and a half. The pool manager (70 yo CA native, so seen his fair share) thought I was exaggerating until he walked over and said it was the biggest he'd ever seen, too.
