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I'd say these things are also 'way in the future'.


They are just waiting for the right moment to try again.


I attended a talk by Jack Poulson (quit Google over Dragonfly and how it was handled) over the last weekend and he suggested that based on Google's reaction, it has definitely been simply shelved until the resistance and media attention dies down.

The whole thing was carried out in secret to begin with and Sundar Pichai has been completely silent on how it jives with it's own ethical standards.


Nothing, but we're not talking about contextless for-loops here, and you know that.


Your 'work' on military drone technology and censored search is political by nature.

If you want politics out of your workplace, stop working for the company that spends more on political lobbying than any other tech company.


If your politics are encouraging or even accepting of sexual harassment and pay discrimination based on gender, then your 'politics' aren't worth acknowledging, honestly.


The one you've responded to was clearly making fun of the one who dismissed the issues as "politics".


Any opinion looks worthless when you deliberately mischaracterise it like this.


I think the point is, Bill Gates was already privileged before he got rich.


That's the homo-economicus argument and it's fallen flat a great many times.

Humans act irrationally all the time.


It's humans that would be enacting regulations, too. With market pricing, the people involved are responsible for their own irrational behavior.


With market pricing, the people involved are responsible for their own irrational behavior.

Brilliant. It's all their own choice. They should have chosen to be born into a rich family. They should have chosen an expensive education. They should have chosen good health. They should have chosen a job that pays millions.

All this, of course, is commonly believed in the US. I sometimes suspect that actually it's not so much believed as just something that rich people want very much to believe; it means they can feel like they deserve and earned every last penny, and that they don't have to feel bad at all about all the people being screwed over.


> Capitalism has been a miracle for everyone, not just a few.

Capitalism has had demonstrably terrible effects for many people all over the world without the luck of being born in a country or even a social class with enough economic clout to dictate favourable terms in trade agreements.

The conflict and genocide in East Timor was driven by capitalist Indonesia (a US ally) and colonial greed. Of course this conflict was ignored at the time because it was more important to focus on the Khmer Rouge, so the US and its brand of capitalism could save face:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_invasion_of_East_Ti...

As was the privatisation of water supply in Bolivia that led to conflict and massacres:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochabamba_Water_War

Plus the US-backed militias and crackdowns in various South American nations to prop up and entrench its business interests:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

These are just three examples. There are countless other examples of the destruction and death caused by capitalist policies all over the world. This kind of greed, corruption and harm is not limited to totalitarian states, they're just less reported on by western media. Deliberately so.

Calling it a 'miracle for everyone' is an obscenely narrow-minded claim.


Your examples are terrible. East Timor is a classic case of conflict based on language and religion (Indonesia is Muslim, East Timor is Portuguese-speaking and Catholic.) Your water example involves a private company being forced to raise rates to pay for a dam that it was forced to build as part of a government I funded mandate.


The "language and religion" bit bugs me: How do you know if any collection of individuals' prejudices has ever caused war when it could be the invisible hand of capitalist economics? It's invisible.

If I claimed slavery in the early US was all about racist animus and had nothing to do with economic efficiency that would be silly. Businessmen enslave because it makes great wealth, and the specific racisms emerge in parallel to justify and perpetuate the profit. Where do we draw the line for which conflicts we can say definitely starts with the moral flaw of a person/group, and which starts with the forces of economic incentive?


Conflict over language and religion predates capitalism by thousands of years. If a conflict looks similar to those pre-capitalism conflicts, and the situation in Indonesia does, it’s probably linguistic and religious conflict, not capitalistic. (You also seem very confused about what “capitalism” means. “Capitalism” doesn’t just mean business or profit seeking. Feudal lords and mercantilists made a profit. Capitalism by definition requires voluntary exchanges, which don’t happen in master-slave relationships. Again, slavery and serfdom predate capitalism by thousands of years. This is a definitional aspect of capitalism. Indeed, Adam Smith’s wealth of nations was expressly a critique of the then-prevalent system of mercantilism.)


My point was that lot of leftists/anarchists will say that economic forces, including before the capitalist market economies, can create situations where ideological extremist groups will gain power. They will appear out of nowhere and anyone can say "this looks like social animus just happened to win here", but the underlying cause was some group's will to extract resources from a place or population.

I don't know the history and the geopolitics at all but ideas like "Western powers destabilized Indonesia and East Timor to ensure profitable trade situations for them" are not mutually exclusive with "Indonesia and East Timor are in linguistic and religious conflict"


My examples are so bad that you had to deliberately mischaracterise the first and third, and completely ignore the second.

Kudos.


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