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You looked at Kotlin? As a C# developer I'm loving the language and it is x-platform.

And that's despite my assumed bias, because I work at JetBrains.



kotlin looks cool. But it's missing some minor things that would make it much more friendly:

* no regex literals

* a little verbose(instead of [] for arrays, it's "Arrays")

* hashes IMO should be JSON

* why doesn't null evaluate to false? God I hate writing if (a != null). I'm much happier in javascript/ruby/groovy land where if can type "if (!a)" or "unless a" or even cooler "raise Exception("a should not be null") unless a"

* why did the world standardize on camelCase instead of snake_case ? the world was wrong about this!

basically a little more javascript and ruby influence would have been good. make the language more "fun" and expressive. There is no equiv of the ||= operator or | for joining arrays, etc

But the big things it's missing are more ecosystem features: * REPL

* an alternative build system (please don't make anyone use maven!) should be an interpreted scripting language. I'd look at Rake or Gradle for inspiration

* rails like web framework


Trouble with all the build systems is they're language based, and the best systems use the worst languages, and vice versa.


>kotlin looks cool except they should do all kinds of dumb stuff as if it were a scripting language

It is a statically typed language designed to try to drag java programmers kicking and screaming into the 1970s. Virtually everything you listed would be a bad change. Just use a language that is actually similar to what you want.


This attitude is why java is stuck in the stone ages. Any ideas coming from the dynamically typed world are "dumb".


No, dumb ideas are dumb. It has nothing to do with java. Haskell is statically typed, and it is far more advanced than the languages you are thinking of when you think advanced.


which ideas are dumb and why?

btw being a jerk doesn't help your case.

lesson in civil discourse by example: "I don't think that a ||= operator is a good idea because XXX"


Trying to turn a language into a totally and completely different language is dumb. This is not complicated. Civil discourse also requires that you take the time to read and comprehend words before you reply to them with crap.


look at Rust btw. Statically typed, but heavily influenced by the scripting languages. You should set them straight!


I've seen rust. I don't know what you think is so heavily influenced by scripting languages, you'll have to share.


Kotlin seems nice but when's Kotlin going to be "for real"?

What I mean by that is, when will it go 1.0? When will we see a major project from Jetbrains implemented in it?

Kotlin has been around for a couple of years now and Jetbrains still won't answer these questions as far as I can see[1].

[1] - http://devnet.jetbrains.com/message/5490337?tstart=0


You can start with the latest build. It is that good. There is no need to wait for the 1.0 version.


I'm sure it's good. It's just not for real yet.

* If you read the link, there is no guarantee of backwards compatibility to the current point within future releases. This is why they're still in milestones.

* Jetbrains has yet to show us that they are, themselves, committed to Kotlin by implementing something major in it.

* They won't provide a timeline for 1.0.

I love thinking about and toying with new languages, but when it comes to sitting down and doing stuff, I need to know the environment has enough commitment such that I don't have immediate code rot.


So you would use a pre-1.0 version with no guarantees of backward compatibility to implement something real? Something that a business depends on, not just something you can toss up on your GitHub page to look cool? I would fire you as soon as we tried to update to a new version and had to spend weeks fixing your now broken code.


I've been really impressed by Kotlin after trying it out for a week. I didn't have huge problems with Java (I accept it for what it is) but it really is nice to user a more modern Language. (note: I've never tried Scala)


Did you re-implement ReSharper or any of your _major_ products in Kotlin?


I want to like it but the lack of value type structs and other GC avoidance features will keep its performance at java levels.


And for wide variety of server side applications, Java level performance is awesome




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