[edit:
> I'm not sure I get your point...are you saying there was no intent?
I'm saying there was no intent to deprive someone of access to something they already own, or are in possession of. There might be intent to not pay for a licence to access something -- but not paying isn't the same as stealing. Everyone else still have access to their licences and licensed copies.]
Legally, theft means you deprive someone of their access to a thing. There's a difference between that, and "getting something for free that you should pay for" -- when that 'thing' isn't a thing at all -- it's a copy -- and by the act of copying you aren't depriving anyone of their access to the thing you copied.
If you steal a book, you're staling it from the current owner: either an avid book fan, a shop, a library. On very rare occasions, say at a conference -- the owner of the book-thing will happen to be the same legal entity as the author (tough even more seldom the copyright holder, as that might be the publisher).
I'm not saying that copyright infringement is legal, I'm saying it's not theft.
On a side note, the use of the word piracy is even worse -- it implies threats and/or application of violence -- effectively lifting something that is a civil matter to a criminal matter.
> in common parlance, taking something without permission is theft, even if it's not tangible property (e.g. "he stole my idea".)
And you can also call "a bargain" "a steal". That doesn't mean it's illegal to shop at a fire sale...
Yes, it is. If you do that with physical items, it's called "shoplifting" :-) You may now argue that taking, say, a loaf of bread deprives somebody of it. But consider that between 14 and 40 percent of perishable supermarket groceries are discarded as waste. Who's to then stop you from saying you took the loaf that was going to be discarded anyway and so you're not depriving anybody?
> I'm not saying that copyright infringement is legal, I'm saying it's not theft.
And I'm saying, colloquially, copyright infringement is equivalent to theft. This is why there are laws against it, it's just that the legal code is different for different crimes. Now, one may insist on using the proper legal terms, but note that this is not a legal forum or a legal debate, so colloquial usage is fine :-)
> And you can also call "a bargain" "a steal". That doesn't mean it's illegal to shop at a fire sale...
And you can say "she stole my heart". That does not mean it's illegal to be attractive either. Obviously the context of how the word "steal" is used matters. But note that it typically has negative connotations, implying that the act is somehow unfair. And when talking about taking without permission, stealing describes the act pretty well.
> - but not paying isn't the same as stealing.
>> Yes, it is.
No it isn't.
>> If you do that with physical items, it's called "shoplifting" :-)
You're being purposfully vague, using "if you do that" rather than
stating plainly what you mean by "that".
If you go into a store, and not pay for something, then that is
perfectly legal. If you go into a store and take a photograph of a
magazine page, that may or may not be legal -- but if it is illegal, it
isn't theft. It's copyright infringement. And it's not a crime against
the store (the current owner of the physical copy of the magazine), it's
a crime against the copyright holder (because, when the store bought the
magazine, it didn't buy a copyright licence).
Now, if you take physical item from the store, then that is shop
lifting. The store can no longer sell that item to recouperate it's
costs, nor can it return it to it's supplier as unsold.
> You may now argue that taking, say, a loaf of bread deprives somebody
> of it.
Yes, it deprives the current owner of it. That is the nature of
physical goods.
> But consider that between 14 and 40 percent of perishable
> supermarket groceries are discarded as waste. Who's to then stop you
> from saying you took the loaf that was going to be discarded anyway
> and so you're not depriving anybody?
First, I'm all for dumster diving, efforts to make a more sustainable
world, making it illegal to dump unspoilt food etc, etc -- however:
You're still depriving the store of the physical good. Who's to say the
store doesn't have a policy of donating unsold food to soup kitchens?
So, yes you can ratinaolize breaking the law (self defense and the
defense of human life is one example ingrained in most modern laws) --
that doesn't mean that making a copy is the same as stealing.
I'm saying there was no intent to deprive someone of access to something they already own, or are in possession of. There might be intent to not pay for a licence to access something -- but not paying isn't the same as stealing. Everyone else still have access to their licences and licensed copies.]
Legally, theft means you deprive someone of their access to a thing. There's a difference between that, and "getting something for free that you should pay for" -- when that 'thing' isn't a thing at all -- it's a copy -- and by the act of copying you aren't depriving anyone of their access to the thing you copied.
If you steal a book, you're staling it from the current owner: either an avid book fan, a shop, a library. On very rare occasions, say at a conference -- the owner of the book-thing will happen to be the same legal entity as the author (tough even more seldom the copyright holder, as that might be the publisher).
I'm not saying that copyright infringement is legal, I'm saying it's not theft.
On a side note, the use of the word piracy is even worse -- it implies threats and/or application of violence -- effectively lifting something that is a civil matter to a criminal matter.
> in common parlance, taking something without permission is theft, even if it's not tangible property (e.g. "he stole my idea".)
And you can also call "a bargain" "a steal". That doesn't mean it's illegal to shop at a fire sale...