Like lots of folks I drink a bit, and I smoke the occasional celebratory cigar. I'm fortunate to not have found myself addicted to anything though (that I'm aware of at least).
However, I have family members who have deep addiction problems. Life affecting. One thing that I've noticed is that even when they get off of the substance, the addictive personality traits are still there -- years later.
One of my relatives, for example, managed to get herself off of drinking and smoking completely and was in counseling. The addictions, and the kinds of behaviors that come with maintaining addictions (all kinds of dissociative, anti-social, manipulative weirdness) were ruining her life. Strange thing was, after removing the substance, the behaviors persisted.
Many months later, after quitting drinking and smoking, we found that she was latching onto other activities in an addictive way. For example, she found a puzzle game on her phone that she would play obsessively* -- forgetting to eat, sleep, show up for work, having basic human interaction and even requiring physical therapy at one point for the muscle strain of sitting in the position to play the game for hours on end. Crippling physical pain wasn't even enough to get her to stop -- it was what was providing her "fix". She would sit, literally for days straight and play it. Counseling eventually got her to recognize this addiction, but it was harder for her to stop since she had her phone on her at all times.
Then one day she stopped and we all breathed a sigh of relief -- she started sending emails again and generally became more communicative. A few weeks later the behaviors started again, but it wasn't with her phone. Turned out she had just found a computer game she liked more and switched off the phone game.
Today she manages a bit better, but she went through a smoking binge for a while. She's "quit" again, but now just habitually chews nicotine gum. Apparently the nicotine helps keep her off of other more destructive behaviors (like playing phone games obsessively). When she feels stressed, she just chews some nicotine gum and that seems to get her through the craving. She's back working a regular job now and doing okay, but the idea that she'll find some other, better, satisfier, scares everybody.
* - obsession is outright scary when you see it in another human for real. It makes a mood swing look like a flat affect. A person who's addictively obsessed with something is almost feral, operating on instinct -- except with human level brain power to alter their environment to maintain the obsession.
The book Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace is an astoundingly good illustration of this. He follows characters as they use work, tennis, video entertainment, and even addiction recovery itself as addictions. I feel as if my understanding of addiction and its depths was deepened a great deal. The older I get the more healing from addiction seems like an actual real miracle.
This is the rule, not the exception, among addicts. Every recovery program (12-step or not) emphasizes that drugs are not a drug addict's only problem. Obviously they are a very destructive part of the problem, but every addict who stops using long enough learns that -- surprise! -- they're still a self-centered, fear-driven, manipulative, obsessive person. That stuff doesn't just go away when you stop using; if anything, it flares up in other ways (as you've seen firsthand).
A wise old woman in AA once told me that addicts are just like everybody else, only more so." You will find a full spectrum of introverts to extroverts in Recovery.
H
I don't think a definition of addictive "personality" is used. Most addicts are using to manage extreme negative internal states. Not everyday bad moods.
I agree with the poster who mentioned Infinite Jest as capturing some of the subjective experience of the "insanity" of an addict.
That's very interesting. Do you think addicts already have those personality traits from before they became addicted, or the traits developed as a result of the addiction?
I used to read obsessively as a kid. I also ate lots and lots of candy- I'd finish entire packets at one go. Went on to be an internet addict and cigarette smoker.
I think... I just never learned focus, discipline, self-control, portion-control, when to stop. I think it's a habit more than anything else. I think I've always had some "addictive" personality, but I think I could've kept it in better check if I developed habits of discipline and control- which I never really did.
Most addicts are abused (or experience comparable longterm stress) as children, which causes brain damage, which leads to addiction. There is a certain genetic component also, but it mostly has to do with your childhood.
This sounds rather much like speculation to me. Do you have any sources to back up your "Most" statement. Since the disease is generational, quite often children of addicts will have a stressful upbringing, but your theory of brain damage from stress causing the addiction is quite a stretch.
Gabor Mate discusses this in his Angry Ghosts book. If you search through my comments for his name, there is a link to an interview where he discusses this also.
It's not necessarily always "abuse" so much as mis-parenting and/or unhealthy environments. I forget who said it but there's a quote that goes something like this: 'All healthy families share similar traits and patterns, but unhealthy families all have their own hosts of unique issues.'
For one source that hit home for me, see Addiction as an Attachment Disorder by Philip Flores
Religious practice can be remarkably effective at curing afflictions of the mind including depression and addiction. I knew a guy who recounted his story of being continuously depressed, addicted to everything he could get his hands on. One day he, on a whim, walked into a church, and was instantly cured of everything. Now he can hold a job, work towards a future. Doesn't go to AA meetings, doesn't need to. It's like God flipped a switch in his brain, is the way he described it. You'd think a guy like that would be preaching God from the rooftops, but he doesn't. He's real chill, easygoing.
I have met several people addicted to religion. It's socially accepted and can fill the needs of some people vary well, but it can also be just as destructive as heroin.
The religious basis of AA (Alcoholics Anonymous), after which nearly all 12-step programs are modeled, does not require "accepting Jesus as your savior". It does require, however, accepting that a "higher power" might restore you to sanity.
This is a very important distinction, because AA goes to great lengths to clarify that the "higher power" is one of your own understanding. It is not Jesus, it is not a Christian-Jewish-Muslim God. It is simply something "bigger than yourself" which exists and which you can feel comfortable addressing.
It could be the Pacific Ocean for all you care. It just must be bigger than you.
I agree, but would say this its not that will power alone won't work, but that some people don't believe in the power of there own will, and need to submit (at least to start with) to another force. Once people break the cycle they can come to realise that they do have the power within them.
That's the rub, though; for whatever reasons, physical or psychological or both, some people do not and cannot provide enough will power alone and need help.
This is why addicts talk to other addicts; because other addicts "get it" and can provide help in overcoming the problem that isn't just "learn how to use your own will power". That's just condescending.
It's obvious, really; if it were that simple, there would be a great deal less addicts in the world.
It's unfortunate that this has been your experience. Where I am from recovery groups are as hand-off when it comes to personal religious/spiritual/atheistic beliefs as they can be. I've never once had someone try to push a set of beliefs on me, and I am grateful they haven't tried as that would have pushed me out of recovery faster than anything.
For example, she found a puzzle game on her phone that she would play obsessively
Actually an interesting observation on how difficult it is to draw the line between obsession and passion. It seems that she (can devlop) an extremely high level of focus, something that what would probably regarded by many as a trait for becoming successful in a specific discipline.
To me, this and the parent post are the most interesting thing here. I find myself to be quite like the parent's family member in that all that I do is obsessive, often to the point of self-destructive results. It's always been this way with work and hacking (to the extreme) and certainly for other less productive things like alcohol, food, news (ctrl-R) and especially television/films.
What I'm wondering is if we could extract some positive gain from this. Maybe there's a way to gamify certain activities so that people could hook themselves on something positive. I know this has been done for certain types of exercise (I can't recall any webapps right now but a simple search for mobile apps should show a hundred or so.) I'm curious if it would work for such things as meditation, self-study, diet, social activity, etc.
I get the feeling there's a lot of research out there about gamification, but I wonder if there are any webapps out there allowing people to gamify <whatever> in their life so as to allow the person to more efficiently build positive habbits. If it hasn't been done, maybe this is a new market niche to be taken advantage of.
If anyone finds anything or is interested in potentially collaborating, let me know. I'll be looking into it myself in the meantime.
EDIT: After reading a bit, I just remembered https://chains.cc/ was posted to HN a while back.
An example is: 7min for iOS has badges and achievements. You should look at the companies that Badgeville or someone similar has worked on. Amazon has the layer of highlighting and the percentage you've read and that can be gamified and sold to them. Watching TV shows and series has been gamified by apps like GetGlue. Civic participation is already being gamified. It's highly saturated.
Great and free. Thanks for this, I'm giving it a try. I was _this_ close to building something similar myself, glad I found a really good version already built. :)
I almost agree with you, but there's a qualitative difference between obsession and focus just like addiction vs. dedication.
Focus/Dedication is something you can choose to do, it's a tool you can use (though some people's tools work better than others). When you need to stop you can and then move onto other things.
Obsession is something that controls you, you are the tool being used, and when it's time to move on the obsession continues to control you keeping you under its thumb.
The problem with that is the delayed gratification - most productive endeavours these days require months on end of hard work before any reward can be expected - especially if you start out as a non-expert.
Reminds me of the famous toddler marshmallow experiment - how kids able to endure delayed gratification tend to be more successful later in life.
Well anything that goes to this type of excess will be a problem though:
"a puzzle game on her phone that she would play obsessively* -- forgetting to eat, sleep, show up for work, having basic human interaction and even requiring physical therapy at one point for the muscle strain of sitting in the position to play the game for hours on end."
What we are probably dealing with here is more than a simple addiction (to which your suggestion is good and would definitely be in the right direction). What we have is a mental problem that includes addictive traits.
After all the DSM is fairly arbitrary (as are medical definitions).
You seem to be suggesting an initial addiction caused an addictive personality, but are you sure your relative wasn't prone to addictive behavior to begin with?
It's anecdotal of course, and correlation doesn't equal causation and all that, but the people I'm close to who seem to really have addiction issues seem to be people who had addiction issues a priori.
e.g. I can't even conceive of a scenario where I could find myself thinking about willingly even trying heroin or cocaine. But I have a few family members and (former) friends with addiction problems so severe that pounding a case of beer before snorting lines is what they call a normal Thursday afternoon and heroin is considered a weekend recreational sport. Something predisposed them to the notion that this was a valid idea whereas I can't even conceive of it.
From my observation and knowledge over time I think your statement "prone to addictive behavior to begin with" is correct.
That said I'm not reading what you are saying the OP is possibly suggesting at all.
He says:
"One of my relatives, for example, managed to get herself off of drinking and smoking completely and was in counseling. The addictions, and the kinds of behaviors that come with maintaining addictions (all kinds of dissociative, anti-social, manipulative weirdness) were ruining her life. Strange thing was, after removing the substance, the behaviors persisted."
I don't see anything that suggests that the initial addiction caused further addictions at all in the above paragraph.
Pretty sure you are addicted to oxygen. You are probably addicted to hackernews also. This is not meant to be a banal comment. Addiction is not necessarily a bad thing. You could be addicted to hard work, for example. You could be addicted to your family. Being so addicted to your family that you would be willing to die in order to protect them is not necessarily a bad thing.
Addiction isn't typically construed as mere dependence or devotion. Our taboo of addiction stems from the negative consequences of maintaining the object of dependence.
Forsaking all news sources except HN is narrow-minded, but not a good example of addiction. Spending hours refreshing, and replying to all the comments to the point where you are neglecting other responsibilities: addiction.
edit: oops, redundant reply because I had this open for 30 min & didn't refresh before replying.
Addiction or dependence or obsession is usually defined as a behavior that causes negative consequences for the individual that they would prefer to avoid.
In that case, oxygen and protecting your family would not be regarded as addictions.
Protecting your family could actually become an addiction/obsession depending on its intensity. Someone could be so intent on protecting their family constantly that they avoided sleep, or spent much of their money on weapons/security system upgrades, or prevented them leaving their home. In that case, all of those would certainly be negative repercussions.
Thanks for sharing. I have never seen the type of addiction you described first hand. Firstly, I wonder how prevalent this "level" of addiction is. Secondly,what type of environmental and genetic factors influence it
Is this post a joke, or are people actually so completely out of touch with reality that they become "rabid nicotine junkies", and their families see them as in need of help?
Has she been robbing people to pay for her habit? Selling herself?
However, I have family members who have deep addiction problems. Life affecting. One thing that I've noticed is that even when they get off of the substance, the addictive personality traits are still there -- years later.
One of my relatives, for example, managed to get herself off of drinking and smoking completely and was in counseling. The addictions, and the kinds of behaviors that come with maintaining addictions (all kinds of dissociative, anti-social, manipulative weirdness) were ruining her life. Strange thing was, after removing the substance, the behaviors persisted.
Many months later, after quitting drinking and smoking, we found that she was latching onto other activities in an addictive way. For example, she found a puzzle game on her phone that she would play obsessively* -- forgetting to eat, sleep, show up for work, having basic human interaction and even requiring physical therapy at one point for the muscle strain of sitting in the position to play the game for hours on end. Crippling physical pain wasn't even enough to get her to stop -- it was what was providing her "fix". She would sit, literally for days straight and play it. Counseling eventually got her to recognize this addiction, but it was harder for her to stop since she had her phone on her at all times.
Then one day she stopped and we all breathed a sigh of relief -- she started sending emails again and generally became more communicative. A few weeks later the behaviors started again, but it wasn't with her phone. Turned out she had just found a computer game she liked more and switched off the phone game.
Today she manages a bit better, but she went through a smoking binge for a while. She's "quit" again, but now just habitually chews nicotine gum. Apparently the nicotine helps keep her off of other more destructive behaviors (like playing phone games obsessively). When she feels stressed, she just chews some nicotine gum and that seems to get her through the craving. She's back working a regular job now and doing okay, but the idea that she'll find some other, better, satisfier, scares everybody.
* - obsession is outright scary when you see it in another human for real. It makes a mood swing look like a flat affect. A person who's addictively obsessed with something is almost feral, operating on instinct -- except with human level brain power to alter their environment to maintain the obsession.