They're paying £35,000 but will go to £40,000 for the right candidate
I literally laughed out loud at this. I'm a Yank who doesn't even know what the exchange rate is, and that is laughably, sadistically low, even for an entry level position in Podunk, Nowhere. And they're offering this for a "senior developer" in the urban metro area of London? The author is right, IT recruitment is totally broken.
> * that is laughably, sadistically low, even for an entry level position in Podunk, Nowhere*
The salaries are low by US standards, but not "laughably" so IMHO.
In USD, those salaries currently translate to $53k - $60k. I know developers in the Bay Area who make the same (not taking equity into account), and I'm sure those salaries are reasonable in "podunk nowhere, USA".
I guess it's also worth noting that the dollar is currently somewhat strong relative to the pound (in 2009 it was closer to 1:2 GBP:USD, for instance).
> Really? I thought bay area salaries were more around 80k+ to take into account cost of living.
Generally yes, but ~$60k salaries are not totally unheard of - particularly in poorly funded startups hiring on equity and/or for junior roles. They are probably outliers.
That may have been true 10-15 years ago. For someone with either experience or a degree, most places pay 90k+. A senior engineer (as mentioned in the blog post) would easily make twice that.
Sure. As mentioned, I know people that make the salaries I quoted (who have both experience and degrees), and that's not something I plan to argue (because it's a fact). In my opinion they could make more if they really wanted to, but that's orthogonal to this discussion.
In the middle of nowhere, web developers make $30-70k in my experience. You need to work in a "city" (even if its small), or work remotely for a company that pays well to do any better.
How can you possibly know that without knowing the exchange rate?
(It's about 1.5 USD per GBP, so that's $52k - $60k... which is silly for a "senior developer" but I think actually reasonable for a low-cost-of-living entry level position.)
Even if that were true - and it's not - this isn't a graduate role is it? For a senior dev role in London you're going to need to start at £50k and be prepared to end up nearer £80k if you actually want someone to do more than grind out some simple business logic.
You would be sharing a house in a less than salubrious area for that.
when I worked in Holbourn last year of the 3 young members of the team living in central London 2 of them lived in family owned property on the other had well off family (a first from oxbridge)
this is a bit low for a senior developer, but it isn't crazy by UK standards and would actually be an extremely good salary for someone straight out of university not working in a bank. go search for experienced developer jobs outside of London if you really want to see sadistically low salaries...
It's more like $60k in USD, and while that is still lower than I've ever made out of college I have a suspicion that you are not aware of how cheap the cost of living is in Podunk, Nowhere. I don't even live in Podunk, Nowhere, but in a rather large but medium-COL city, and I do very well for myself.
I can't help but laugh when a friend in SF, making easily $30k/year more than me, can't even afford a place with his own washer and dryer. Meanwhile I could buy a 4+ bedroom house with 20% down after one year of working; or, if I choose to rent in the city, I can get one of the nicest apartments the city has to offer in an upscale area. The only nicer places would be high-rise penthouses with doormen, valet parking, and panoramic views of the city.
Granted, the real problem here is that London is not cheap. It's fucking expensive. So you're not going to be living like I am on that sort of salary in London.
n.b. Developer salaries are considerably lower in London than in many parts of the US. (Although that's still low for a senior role). Aside from banks, not many places will offer £40k for an entry level graduate role.
Have you ever been outside of the bay area? Go someplace not in the top 3 for most expensive real estate and you'll see kids 3 weeks out of school making $40k a year with plenty left over after paying for their car and 1-bedroom with no roommate.
God it's like everybody on HN was born and raised in SF and has never made less than $150k a year.
Well, I was born and raised in SF, but have interned in Seattle and Austin. I'll be the first to admit money goes further there, but even in those places my full time offers - years ago - exceeded $61k/year.
$60k seems low for me anywhere for this reason: Even with the Bay Area's high cost of living, a college hire with a $90k offer without a family who wants to live with roommates will be able to save more than someone in a low cost of living place making $60k. The $20k additional take home will more than cover the added cost of of a room (perhaps $12k more/year).
As far as one bedrooms go, at $60k you can find one bedrooms for $1600/month or less in SF (less hot places or below market rates in hot places). In cheap Austin, $600 is about the minimum. That's a $12k a year spread, but not enough to not take a $60k SF offer over $40k in Austin.
As others have stated, salaries in London (and almost anywhere else in the world) are quite a bit lower. But many would argue you need less for a good quality of life in these places as well.
I literally laughed out loud at this. I'm a Yank who doesn't even know what the exchange rate is, and that is laughably, sadistically low, even for an entry level position in Podunk, Nowhere. And they're offering this for a "senior developer" in the urban metro area of London? The author is right, IT recruitment is totally broken.