Sorry but is this the kind of paranoid stupidity I should start to expect from HN now ?
The "government" has been able to collect far more data via the tax and health care systems, TSA, census etc for decades. Imagine all the scary statements I could contrive from those. Or how about we amp up the crazy and talk about all the things the "government" could be doing with their drones and satellites.
>Sorry but is this the kind of paranoid stupidity I should start to expect from HN now ?
Nothing "paranoid" about it.
Are you some kind of totally private citizen, only concerned with his household affairs, that has never been in any activist, grassroots, dissident movement, from OWS to EFF?
If yes, your lack of historical knowledge is understandable.
>The "government" has been able to collect far more data via the tax and health care systems, TSA, census etc for decades. Imagine all the scary statements I could contrive from those.
No need to imagine anything. Yes, they have been able to collect all these data, and they have already used them. Even in the past, do you know how many people the government didn't like did Senator McCarthy or J.E. Hoover step on, blackmailed, got fired from their job and/or jailed with such data?
Do you remember why Nixon was resigned? Remember that Watergate thing? Heck, they eavesdropped and broke into the HQs of the Democratic Party, which is a huge power itself. Consider what they'd do to dissidents, whistleblowers and such.
>Or how about we amp up the crazy and talk about all the things the "government" could be doing with their drones and satellites.
What's crazy about it? They already murder citizens of sovereign nations with them, without trial, and also track foreign (as if only) nations, corporations, etc, with those. You meant to suggest those things are not bad enough already?
well, it's not really paranoid stupidity. these resources were used against the Occupy movement. if you look at the 70's, COINTELPRO was created to squash domestic dissenting groups such as the Black Panthers, to great effect.
our government is perfectly fine with suppressing dissent, and the fate of the Occupy movement shows this - a government would not use undercover police, agent provocateurs, destabilizing tactics, etc. if they tolerated dissent. in my city, the local police intentionally broke up homeless camps and moved them near or into the Occupy tent camp, straining the Occupy resources. Then, when the homeless people inevitably did drugs or were publicly intoxicated in the camp, the police came in and started arresting people left and right for drug possession, intoxication, etc. this did a fantastic job of breaking up our local protest.
>well, it's not really paranoid stupidity. these resources were used against the Occupy movement. if you look at the 70's, COINTELPRO was created to squash domestic dissenting groups such as the Black Panthers, to great effect.
What's "paranoid" (== isolated in a private little world and ignoring facts) is to ignore or downplay such things, as the parent does.
If not total naiveness, it's a classic case of "la la la la la hands in the ears" denial.
As Gore Vidal put it: "Americans have been trained by media to go into Pavlovian giggles at the mention of 'conspiracy' because for an American to believe in a conspiracy he must also believe in flying saucers."
As if governments all other the world, throughout history, didn't conspire against dissidents. And as if secret services weren't created for this very reason exactly.
> As Gore Vidal put it: "Americans have been trained by media to go into Pavlovian giggles at the mention of 'conspiracy' because for an American to believe in a conspiracy he must also believe in flying saucers."
While we're on that subject:
There's a very interesting video about 9/11 that every American really, really, really should watch put out by a group called Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
Downvoted. Not for the disagreement but for the offensive and degrading tone which I see having no purpose here in HN.
As many have pointed out, the USG has the power, and the USG has abused that power numerous times in the past(Pentagon Papers for example? Lies/misinformation related to Iraq war and the whole War on Terror? Aforementioned Watergate scandal?). Because with power comes the responsibility, and the past has shown that the USG has not been able to live up to the expectations of the said responsibility, it is naive to believe it won't happen again. Of course it's not only USG, but probably every single government out there which has ever existed which has been corrupt in some way and which has abused it's power in a way or another when it comes to political regards, let alone other personal benefits of those in power. This only strenghtens the belief that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
It's not paranoid. They did that regarding the Communists, Civil Rights Movement, and much much more..... It's just the way things go when you have people in power who believe in their agenda and want to accomplish things.
The "government" has been able to collect far more data via the tax and health care systems, TSA, census etc for decades. Imagine all the scary statements I could contrive from those. Or how about we amp up the crazy and talk about all the things the "government" could be doing with their drones and satellites.