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Working past 6 should be considered absurd unless you start at 10 or 11..

There's a world out there for you to enjoy, and many people fought hard for workers rights so we don't have kill ourselves over work.




This. Joy to the European work ethic. I haven't worked past 5 for the last 10 years. I refuse to do unpaid work and overtime. Would your employer bill you out for free? Nope.


Actually yes, it's called a bonus.


What's a bonus? I'm a top employee for my employer but I've never had this phantom thing.


I get a hefty one of them as well. What's your point?

I don't expect one. My basic salary is what I expect.


Employers hand out bonuses to incentivise enployees to stay. Employees do unpaid overtime to incentivise employers to keep them. My point is that they are fundamentally similar concepts. It's great that you're in a position where your employer wants to incentivise you to stay around by giving you bonuses yet you don't need to do overtime to keep your job. I'm also in a similar position. Some people aren't, and this has nothing to do with European work culture or work ethics. It's supply and demand.


Not being disposable or fungible is their incentive for keeping me.

The things that make me stay at a company isn't the carrot dangled in front of me like some circus animal who needs to do their performance.

People are too grateful for jobs. Employers use this to enforce servitude on people under terrible terms and people just lap it up every time.

I'd rather sleep on the street than sell my soul.


Not worth it.


I agree if you're working in some drone farm. Without a personal stake, why do people feel enthusiastic about following orders that keep them locked up at work all day? I understand that there may be coercion, like the threat of being fired, but if you're just writing software for your company, where does the enthusiasm for long hours come in? I'm freelance, and I love working on my projects. I often work long hours. I hardly stop. But I have a 100% stake in what I do and generally choose projects I believe in, like endangered language preservation or stuff that I find intellectually stimulating. Why would someone want to work at Microsoft or Google past 6pm? Why do people give their souls to hives?


Even if you're not working at some drone farm you should probably take time to yourself to relax and spend time with your friends/family. I understand if you're freelance and you have deadlines and whatnot you'll need to work long/odd hours, but honestly you shouldn't have to kill yourself with work. I enjoy what I do and have a large equity stake in it, but I'm not going to burn myself out because "I love what I'm doing." It's not good for me, it's not good for my family, and it's not good for my work. If there is a tight, important deadline sure I'll work longer hours, but in most cases it's almost certainly unnecessary and definitely negative.


There is more to life than your profession.

Or, more generally, there is more to life than one single thing. Some people let a single thing (or a very, very small number of things) define themselves, and it's a bad idea.

Think critically - how are you defined? If you asked the 5 people closest to you, how would they describe you? If they can't get much further than "good software guy", be careful.

Life is way too short to be one-dimensional.


Life is way too short to be one-dimensional

Hi, if you don't mind, I am going to use this citation a lot.


Sometimes I work noon-10pm at Google. Because I feel like it. What's the problem? :-)


You can work 24x7 as far as I'm concerned. Just don't expect others to do the same.


Without some drive and enthusiasm about what you are doing those 9-5s could end up being a lot worse than the alternative of putting in some extra effort because you are really enthusiastic about what you are doing.


I totally agree. I only work past 6 if I came in late. Otherwise there are plenty of hobbies to catch up with. Mine is making a nice dinner for myself at the end of the day. In that way you also get more time to work on your personal/side projects or even contribute to open source.


Not if you love what you're doing.


I totally love what im doing, but forgive me, i love my family more.


I love my family, my health, and life more. Work, while important to me, isn't even near the top of my priority list. I work so that I can do the things and be around the people I truly care about.

My only real life regret is that I didn't realize it a bit sooner.


Wow, incredibly profound. THANK YOU. Upvoted.

It is an extremely difficult thing to accept that one should not think of one's identity and aim in life by their employment, isn't it?


> It is an extremely difficult thing to accept that one should not think of one's identity and aim in life by their employment, isn't it?

It really isn't. Why would you even begin to think in that in the first place?


Plenty of reasons. Firstly, look at how society interacts. "What do you do?" is a frequent conversation starter with new people, and already pigeon holes us by our employment. That starts to build a sense of identity with our work.

Then there's the vicious reward cycle. Do something right with work and you're rewarded with praise, with positive feedback, with kudos. Do something wrong and... well you see where it's going. It's more subtle than how I train my dog, but not much.

And then the tech world is in awe to entrepreneurs and startups, where long hours and being defined by passion for what you do and it being the sole calling in life are the norm. You or I, older now I suspect (I certainly am) may look at it and shake our heads and think of the failed relationships we've seen (the same in any high-powered area of work), but for people without that view it's not easy. I had the same way of thinking as the OP, and even now I still get jealous of those who achieve much by having their work as their identity and aim in life.

And finally society again. There seems to be a growing expectation this is the norm and the right way, like the acceptance that single parent families are normal and a good way for children to be brought up (don't argue with the subject, think about how long that's been an accepted view). For ambitious, maybe insecure graduates starting out in work, that's a huge sense of competing to 'get to the top'. Why they're not sure, but it sure gives one an identity... or does it?


I also love debugging the code I wrote yesterday (or last month) without wondering what could possibly have made me do something so damn stupid.


Amen


I work to live. I don't live to work.


Sorry if I've offended, I didn't phrase that very well. I didn't mean you have to work late if you like your job. I meant it's a trade-off, and sometimes working late and giving up other things is worth it.




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