I'm really bullish on lean manufacturing and vertically integrated startups, and I love that their using CA cotton (my family owns a ranch in the valley that grows cotton) ...
but I'm really skeptical of these startups that say "we're going to disrupt [Luxury Designer Brand X] because we can make the same shirt and charge less". Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of these brands are riding on their brand equity, not the superior quality of their apparel.
It just seems like a bad way to position yourself, IMO.
Quality seems to be making a comeback in the US, especially in menswear. We've entered an age where trial is cheaper than ever, and many online sellers offer nearly unconditional return guarantees.
The reason large luxury brands compete on image, and not necessarily on quality, is because they can. They've taken years to get there. Many of them are also public companies, so they're under intense pressure to expand profit margins and tighten costs. If Ralph Lauren can make a shirt for $5 and sell it for $50, and could make the same shirt for $2 and sell it for $50, they will take the latter option. Likewise, if they can make it for $5 and sell it for $100, they'll take that option. And if they can make it for $2 and sell it for $100, even better. They're creating shareholder value by doing so, and doing so at scale.
Conversely, startup clothing brands typically begin by addressing a specific niche, and addressing that niche's dissatisfaction with the status quo. A friend of mine runs an extremely successful tie company by following this strategy. You might think: why ties? Who actually wears ties these days, and does anyone actually care about their quality? Well, it turns out that, of the set of all people who do wear ties every day, some of the deepest-pocketed and most frequent purchasers of ties care a great deal about quality. Luxury brands have been pissing these people off by cutting corners on quality and coasting on brand image. So...enter my friend's startup, addressing this small but lucrative customer base. Bingo.
(Incidentally, Ralph Lauren himself started off selling neckties).
A friend of mine from high school started Collared Greens ( http://www.collaredgreens.com/ ) which already focuses on neckties made from organic fibers. They aren't my style, but if you wear neckties, bow ties or polo shirts, they have great colors and patterns.
and he started selling them at 2x what others were selling comparable ties at in the same stores. He targeted a niche as well -- his wide ties were far from trendy when he dropped them. You have to admire his ability to market!
What is the name of your friend's tie company? We want to spotlight other well-made products as we build our company.
As you will see on the site: 1) pricing is not cheap, and 2) they get kind of wonky, providing all sorts of construction details on each item. But that's the target demo here: guys who care a lot about quality ties, and who will pay a lot when they see them. Their initial word-of-mouth customer base was a web forum with a particularly upscale, subject-matter-obsessed userbase. (Sort of like launching a new sci-fi series on a Battlestar Galactica forum).
(Incidentally, the company is based out of Singapore, and targets a more international base -- especially the emerging Asian luxury consumer. But lest anyone get the wrong idea: Singapore is not a cheap base of operations for manufacturing. Quite the opposite. This is not a make-it-cheap-overseas and sell-it-cheap-in-the-US business model).
Why use CA cotton instead of one of the types of cotton known for having extra long stable (ELS) fibers that are softer, more comfortable and resist wrinkling better?
Sea Island cotton is excellent. Egyptian, Pima and Swiss are also pretty good.
Is your CA cotton the ELS gossypium barbadense, the common gossypium hirsutum or something else?
I am textile technology and apparel mgmt major turned software developer. TBH, most of my textiles knowledge is really rough. It's been almost 8 years since I graduated.
I believe when it comes to Sea Island cotton, I don't know how many mills have access to it. AFAIK only two Swiss mills had access to it. Get a shirt made from Sea Island cotton and feel how nice it is. Almost all cottons wrinkle but the the longer the staple fibers the less likely it will wrinkle. Long staple fibers will be smoother and softer because the fibers won't stick out from the shirt and scratch your skin. Longer fibers are also thinner and therefore softer. Lastly, longer fibers break more easily and thus are less susceptible to pilling.
Totally agree. No one buying fitted dress shirts cares if they're $29.99 or $69.99. There is a market that cares, but it isn't affluent geeks reading kickstarter.
People in this domain care about fit, look, quality, American made and then maybe price.
I can fufill all of the requirements above except American Made in SF with my tailor and an $80-90 shirt isn't going to make me cry.
Get the hard stuff done, and then don't worry about the price point so much until you scale. We get it, we'll support you and we'll take the price break later.
callmeed, you should drop me an email at william [at] fromholden.com, we're always looking for new suppliers, and help understanding deeper into the supply chain!
What we think is disruptive is the ability to be a trusted go-to site/brand, while not having to support the overhead of retail stores -- inventory, labor, etc are no joke. If we offer a superior product at a lower price, and you buy from us and enjoy it, we think you'll be back over and over -- that means we can keep margins a bit lower, and earn a good revenue stream from each supporter over a long period of time. It is a different model. We think we can continue to communicate new things you'll enjoy, and that is something traditional retail just can't do well. They largely have to wait for you to return, or spend absurd amounts on television and magazine advertising in hopes you'll come back.
I do think it is a disruptive model; but some things remain the same -- quality matters, and your brand represents who you are. Further, we think in this day-in-age, who you are is increasingly important. A lot of old school apparel brands are a fabrication of some fantasy land... we can't and won't do that. Social media is our mouth piece and only authenticity carries.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of these brands are riding on their brand equity, not the superior quality of their apparel.
I think you're wrong in terms of disruption. The people who go by brand equity, in my opinion, are the uninformed consumer. This tends to be the 30 year old+ demographic, people who don't know how to exploit the internet. On the other hand, you have 20 year olds and younger that are extremely informed due to familiarity with internet discussions. The rate of information is incredibly fast in this case, and word of mouth can be a powerful thing. And this group is only getting larger and getting more buying power.
In fact, there's been a large rise in direct-to-consumer apparel retailers, and by all accounts they are doing very well. Take a look at Everlane for example.
FWIW I really like the Everlane website and the products look great. I am sorry you got caught in the crossfire - my comment wasn't intended to single out Everlane but rather to give concrete examples of the parent comment being chock-full of bad information.
(Nevertheless, even with your impressive growth, I'd like to point out that at 22 employees and 71,000 t-shirts sold, you have a long way to go before you are not bleeding big. Not exactly the grown-up definition of "doing well" - which was, of course, parent's example, not yours - so you cannot be blamed for it.)
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of these brands are riding on their brand equity, not the superior quality of their apparel."
I think you are right that some consumers buy because of brand equity. But it certainly isn't 100% of the audience. Bonobos ($40M revenue company) is a perfect example. They broke through the noise and found an audience that wanted to buy based on fit + quality. Not until a couple year into the company did they really start to try to expand their brand equity.
I think there is a sizable audience out there willing to buy based on quality + fit and a lower price (I'm in that audience). But of course at some point to continue growing into a massive company you need to start developing that brand equity.
I think its more an indictment of today's culture. This is completely anecdotal, but I think its becoming increasingly more fashionable to wear unknown brands, as long as the quality is there. Its a big departure from the Ed Hardy or Affliction brand craze that was going on a few years ago.
This is something I've been waiting for for a while. Quality American-made basic clothes at reasonable prices is an incredibly compelling offering. I usually shop from a mix of H&M for basic nondescript items (shirts, polos, socks) and reasonably-priced premium brands for the rest (Calvin Klein, Levi's, etc.).
>Make sure to stay in the loop and let us know what things you'd like us to work on next!
I just went to the original link to sign up for your e-mail list, but . . . there was no signup box. You should really have one in the top right of every post and every page. Wordpress.com does this automagically with a check button (you can see an email signup page here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/), and it's a pretty easy to drive engagement, especially for people from HN.
That's a good start, but I don't really use either Twitter or FB. It's possible that I'm coming from a very minority position, but I've seen a bunch of HN posts about how e-mail lists drive more engagement than any other form of electronic contact.
The focus seems to be on pricing, and understandably so considering the nature of people. The implied ethics behind the manufacturing is something I appreciate: I've bought clothing from only countries with better than not labor laws for the past several years. Recently, Burberry has retired their UK-made products in favor of more dubious manufacturing locations; so I've stopped buying Burberry.
I hope this becomes a mainstream designer brand. American Apparel had their own target audience. But I just couldn't understand why no one was able to develop aesthetically pleasing clothing made in the US on par with other designers you may find in Saks.
> I've bought clothing from only countries with better than not labor laws for the past several years.
This has the effect of giving employees who already make, say, $100 / day more options as to where to work, while refusing to give those who make $10/day (or $1/day) workers oversees choices like this.
I find this effect to be stunningly at odds with most of the stated political goals that usually correlate with this opinion.
If redistribution from the $100/day person to the $50/day person is good, why is redistributing employment options from a $10/day person to a $100/day person a good thing?
In theory, I absolutely agree; however, in reality I disagree unless you can show some data that indicates money being spent this way is more ethical than inhibition. Considering the competition for apparel, ample supply of workers, and what actually goes on in factories, if I have the option I will buy from a place that is more likely to uphold human rights.
If you would like a glimpse into my position and haven't already watched the PBS documentary China Blue, I recommend it.
I think there are opportunities for a company to do an incredible amount of good in other countries as well, like we hope to do locally. But at our stage, we don't have the leverage to vet or monitor contractors in a way we'd find acceptable. We aspire someday to make our apparel available outside the United States with manufacturing in the respective areas! We don't think transporting inputs/outputs across the globe multiple times is fair to our environment.
And probably making some 50$/day workers be able to become 100$/workers and helping those with whom you at least have some cultural connection and also just because you also care for your country and why not, letting some jobless youngster start a career in the USA. And not promoting what is akin to slavery in states about whose workmen we have no clue.
Two complementary things can be good at the same time. Giving money to a beggar and not giving to another can both be good for the same person.
dbul, we definitely agree! Almost every brand in our closets is manufactured outside the United States. Companies like Patagonia are leading the way in striving for local manufacturing at scale, but there it is difficult with the traditional retail model, given most companies margins. This is where we think being online-only will really help.
Please reach out at william [at] fromholden.com and stay in touch. We want your ideas on what you'd like us to design!
I like the "straight from the factory" idea. That said, I have two issues with this:
1. Comparing prices with designer brands such as Lacoste, Ralph Lauren, and Burberry is disingenuous. Consumers are paying for much more than the physical product when they buy goods from those brands.
Your real competitors are companies like Hanes, Gildan, Fruit of the Loom, perhaps even Uniqlo and American Apparel. All of these sell basic garments, of reasonable quality, at mostly reasonable prices.
2. There is no such thing as the "perfect" fit. Everyone has a different body shape. In fact, this is one of the reasons retail clothes shopping continues to thrive. People want to try things on, to check the fit, and assess the quality before buying.
Absolutely agree. Our brand is now almost two years old, fashion bloggers love it, people pin our products like crazy on Pinterest and so on. But we clearly can not charge prices like established brands do.
Opera wanted 10.000 of one of our products as giveaways last summer but of course when we told them for how much we can sell them (we do not produce in factories because we want to keep our quality as high as it is) they didnt go for it.
Even when amazing boutique shops ask you, they will want 50 - 60% off if you ever consider selling to them. We do have our products in some shops just because its good promotion not because we really make money with it.
I don't want to sound negative but there is a reason why so many brands go cheap. We don't because its basically my wife's full time hobby, we want to sell products we are proud off and we are not dependent on that income.
We have about 10 tailors and another 5 leatherworkers working full time by the way, so you get an idea about the size of our operation.
1. We think in the categories we compete -- polos, tee shirts, etc, we are comparable (and strive to be better!) in quality and style to Lacoste, RL, James Perse, etc. These companies use great inputs, and the biggest difference in the actual design will be our lack of logo. We think that, in itself, makes a statement, and we hope there are a lot of people like us who appreciate the statement that it makes. We aspire to have higher quality and more consistent style than Uniqlo and American Apparel.
Yes -- people are paying premiums to other brands, and some of it, for some people is aspirational. We hope people will pay for quality, and if anything, vote with their dollar for a company that reflects their value. We don't want to charge a premium for that though. Our values will be present in the brand by necessity, because we're going to be detailing all along the way of how we're building our company.
2. To us the biggest problems with fit are intra-brand consistency and intra-style consistency. Many manufacturers have poor quality control and a single shirt in the same size will come off with vastly different measurements. ex: http://reviews.urbanoutfitters.com/5309/15787476/bdg-v-neck-...
we'll never, ever have this happen. Quality & consistency is of utmost importance to us.
We want you to find the size that works best for you (they all have an inch or two leeway) and once you know it, you can order without worry. Even before then, you can, because we offer free returns, paid postage both ways, but we want the experience to be pleasant from day one. We're pioneering a bunch of ways to make the experience as easy as possible including FitPaks, true-to-measure sizes, questionnaires we've devised, accurate photos of real people, and many, many other things -- but we're always open to ideas!
We hope you'll follow along and continue to give us candid feedback. We are confident that our success will depend on the support and feedback from people like you!
This all sounds great! I hope you'll be able to offer fine-grained sizes (e.g. something in between S and M) and fits (e.g. something in between normal and slim-fit) and maybe even different colar widths and neckline sizes.
We have fine-grained sizes and fits (especially for the traditionally overlooked audiences like the tall and lean, as well as those that lift weights). We're a manufacturer that is member-driven though, if you have thoughts, shoot them to us, we'd love to hear them!
On (2). I'd like to see someone fix that problem. Zappos did it by allowing people to return as much as they want. I don't know if the same strategy would work for clothing. Bodies are more varied than feet.
I bought a custom made leather jacket and it's by far my favourite piece of clothing. I'd love to see that whole process transfer to the web somehow and not be painful. I want to see it on the web because I want access to more people like the guy who made my jacket (I also want him to be able to make these jackets for more people, they're awesome)
Some companies offer 3D models you can dress up. There was also a startup in Germany if I remember correctly that offered the technology for online retailers. I didn't see it used much though.
We had another fashion related project about 5 years ago, offering custom made hoodies and jackets online. In the end we gave up because many of our customers didn't get the sizing right even though we had detailed tutorials for that, forms with illustrations that showed what to measure and so on.
If you spend 150 bucks on a jacket and the sizing is wrong... well that's no fun. Its not such a big deal for shirts.
I spent much more than that for the jacket (a multiple). To ensure he got the sizing right he first made a cotton shell. When he was satisfied with that, he then cut the leather. I can imagine a similar process with other garments.
I'm clearly not an expert but I'm not sure if this would work on the lower end / high quantity end of the market. Especially at the start. I have a feeling that if I could guarantee my guy 10 jackets a month through the internet, he'd be extremely happy.
I wish you good luck. We are doing something similar, just in a different niche (accessories) and getting the growth you would get by selling wholesale is tough but doable.
The "Made in XYZ" does help but only if the product is truly superior. Are you going to sell individual shirts for $29 / each?
American Apparel had a real novelty value when they launched. Not only was it made in the US, it was made in LA! It struck a chord with hip urban audiences.
So I'm left wondering how From Holden differentiates itself with AA. Pricing, branding, location and fit seem roughly equivalent. Would love to hear from the founders on this.
My gut says that it may have been better to stay in Boston and be (for all I know) the only men's apparel company in Beantown; the East Coast AA. Currently, in my below-average monkey brain, From Holden has been classified as "that other LA clothes company."
We love a lot of what American Apparel has done. We've certainly taken a lot of plays from their book.
That said, we think there are a lot of ways we can improve on the model:
1. Price - we think $25 for a tee shirt and $50 for a hoodie is too expensive; at scale we want to be lower on our basics. We won't be supporting retail stores, so this is very feasible. AA can't come down anymore in price, they've had a rough couple years as it is.
2. Quality - we're confident we can make consistently higher quality garments; more consistent in quality and fit, and better fabrics.
3. Style - on items outside their basics, we're not big fans of AA's fit or style. That is personal preference, of course.
4. Focus - we're only focused on men and will keep a very small line. Instead of millions of colors and styles, we're going to focus on delivering things every guy should and can wear. We want to be a safe bet so dudes can trust us.
LA and NY are really the only two places you can live if you want to be down the street from where your production happens. This is important if you are a micromanfacturer and want that kind of control for quality.
Make sure your shirts are able to get as many washes out of them as the AA ones. I've owned a lot of different brands of shirts and one of the ways in which AA has surpassed many other brands is in the number of washes you can get out of a shirt before it looks and feels like it should be replaced. Many cotton shirts end up with a very rough hand after only 5-10 washes. ELS cotton also makes sure that the shirt resists pilling.
These days 95% of the time I can be found wearing the AA "Track Shirt" in multiple colors because it's got great color fastness and maintains a smooth hand. I'd say each of my shirts have 20+ washes and don't look much different than the day I bought them.
I just recently realized that I've had a few AA shirts through multiple years of heavy rotation, and they still look and feel like new. Whatever it is that they're doing, it works.
Yep. Founders, to save yourself potential headaches in the future, do a USPTO trademark search before settling on a name:
Word Mark: HOLDEN
Goods and Services: IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: clothing, namely, jackets, sweaters, sweatshirts, pants, t-shirts, shirts, vests and outerwear, namely, snow pants, snow jackets, snow suits, insulated and thermal pants, jackets, and shirts; headgear, namely, hats, caps. FIRST USE: 20020000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020000
Quick question. Why move to California? I think everyone knows it's one of the most expensive states in the country. I sort of imagined you moving from CA to somewhere much cheaper with access to more economical space/employees.
All our partners (dye houses, sewers, pattern makers, mills, etc.) are in/around Los Angeles. I had to learn apparel manufacturing from the ground up, and this isn't an industry where I could just read, Google, and make phone calls. I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours side-by-side with all our partners making sure our process is as perfect as we can make it.
I moved from Boston -- LA is cheaper for me, but that is a pretty small part of our overall costs. We're all tech guys and are used to living on ramen. :)
Of all products I only like the polo. The only way to buy one is by spending $65 on an additional v-neck and crew neck - that to me is a flaw: wanting to push/x-sell unwanted product doesn't work now a days.
antr, the first pledge level is for a single polo. Granted, it is a bit more expensive than we'll sell via fromholden.com in the future, but we need to cover initial costs; we hope the bring all prices down in the long run. That said, if you'd like some other package put together, I'd be more than happy to accomodate!
I wonder what the final prices will be, because $30 for a polo is not a 90% reduction in price. Having said that, I would not buy a polo for over 25 dollars, and would try and get a discounted american apparel polo, or even a thrift store. Best of luck to him though, looks like he has almost already met his goal on his kickstarer campaign.
If you can find a nice polo at a thrift store, go with that! We shop thrift/vintage ourselves, and love re-use vs. new manufacturing.
We're going to strive to hit price points that the average American (US!) find reasonable. As we build the company we'll have an increasing ability to do this.
Our first run, however, just isn't feasible at the quality we are holding ourselves to (plus Kickstarter and Amazon both take a cut).
I think we'll hit $25 for a polo quickly. We hope you'll follow the progress and buy when you're comfortable!
Keep it up man. It's awesome that you're doing, and not just talking, like me. America, and the world, needs more ethical manufacturing. And quality over just brand, is what creates great brands, like apple.
I'm all for what you're doing. I think these over priced brands are not worth the cost in quality. I'm happy to pay more for items that I believe are quality, and support good overall ethics. Keep it going.
I've had the luxury of seeing the initial prototypes of at From Holden and was impressed. I feel like a fool buying $100+ shirts from places like Rag & Bone, but I do it because of the style + quality + fit. Looking forward to the first official run of From Holden so I don't have to feel like a fool again :)
Hey William, I saw the name "From Holden" and knew right away this must be someone from Holden, Maine. I'm from Brewer and just wanted to say congrats on getting the ball rolling on your new venture. There aren't many people coming out of Central Maine doing this type of thing. Hats off.
Yeah, on number three now. Currently at Rallyverse in New York working on second generation social marketing tools. I'll hit you up on LinkedIn so we can stay in touch.
It's great to see the interest in made-in-the-USA physical products. I work for a small family-owned US manufacturer. We make neoprene medical and athletic devices, with a focus on custom, and we've been around for 30 years with steady growth. We definitely serve a niche. As some have already pointed out, that is likely where upstart US manufacturers will have success. I believe there are markets for people doing one thing really well and building a reputation in that space.
Flint and Tinder was the first thing I ever backed on kickstarter, and even though there were some production issues, they managed to pull through with some pretty darn nice underwear.
Experience was a big part of it, too. The package came with a beautiful map illustrating where the fabric was grown, processed, and assembled. It also came with some matches, which I don't have an immediate need for, but are cute nonetheless.
F&T was a big inspiration for us. We'll definitely reach out for their advice. We've talked to dozens and dozens of other fashion startups in preparing for not only this Kickstarter campaign, but the harder part of production and fulfillment. Our reputation depends on good service -- we won't disappoint.
This is similar in concept to Everlane? I am not sure if they are manufacturing domestically, but I think the idea is roughly similar (based on their prior posts here on HN).
(1) What about determining the right size? What if the size I ordered doesn't fit? Are you prepared to to take back the wrong size and cover the shipping costs for an exchange?
(2) What about more colors? One of the big advantages of AA is the color selection. What kind of selection can we expect with From Holden?
1. We guarantee absolute satisfaction. We also have a secret incentive that we want you to find the perfect fit so you keep ordering and being happy with us. We'll refund or exchange (and pay all shipping, regardless) for anything, anytime. That said, we've developed what we're calling microsizes as well as fits for other body types -- tall and lean vs. weightlifters, who have been traditionally overlooked in the marketplace.
2. We will expand the colors, and, in fact, will be using our members to help guide us. So shoot us an email and let us know what you want! That said, we'll definitely be more conservative than AA. A lot of the time more choice is not a good thing -- AA has some colors that no guy should wear.
The idea of microsizes is great. I often find it difficult to wear v-neck t-shirts from Armani Exchange they are too short on my 6'5" frame.
As far as colors are concerned, a deep red, like the red in the basic armani exchange v-necks is essential. Regarding the colors AA offers, I'm not sure I totally agree. It's some of my off-the-beaten path shirts from AA that are most likely to get me compliments.
Great Q/A! We're big fans of James Perse and a bunch of the other brands listed. Biggest complaint for JP is that nothing they make is athletic fit and downsizing doesn't work well with length.
If you decide to do footwear and need help with the sizing (or want to help your customers switch from other brands into yours), we're happy to help! (www.shoefitr.com)
Thank you! You should reach out, we're always looking for advice on making our supply chain more efficient and would love to hear about your experience.
TRADEMARK VIOLATION
Holden limited is a car manufaturer. Are you sure you can share their name and fame with no consequences ? They have a mens apparel line which is merchandised quite close to your concept. Adding a "From" might not be acceptable to Holden Ltd., and you might also be in violation of USPTO rulings.
BUSINESS PLAN
I have worked with Lauren and Oscar knit product from inception to delivery. There are some serious holes in your business model, if you are planning to sell a comparable product, made in USA, delivered by mail, at $8.00.
Your management team has impressive credentials but very little hands on knowledge of the apparel industry. Simply stated, The Devil Fears Prada.
1. The minimum wage in CA is $8.00. The effect of the minimum wage kicks in twice when costing your product, first at the stage of fabric manufacturing (where it is built into the fabric price) and than at the cut and make process of garment.
2. Knit fabrics can be a nightmare at the finishing stage. If not finished correctly you will get :
a) Skewing in the garment (when garment is laid flat, side seams move to the front
or back).
b) Shrinkage from 7% - 14% resulting in pukering problems also.
c) Color variations in bulk fabric lots.
d) Color fastness issues.
e) Variation in feel after wash and hiking of garment (riding up)
When working with factories in Asia, if fabrics fail testing protocol we issue a "refinish fabric" and sure as hell they refinish. However, given the minimum wage in USA and the price you intend to market your product, refinish will not be an option, so you leave no margin for error. That is if you are aiming for a fabric comparable to the brands you are trying to compete with.
3. Unfortunately, vanity creates brands and brands have become smart enough to offer basics at low prices. That is where they make their big dollars. Men do like to sport the logos too, and will pay those few extra dollars for it. Also, the money back guarantee on brands you are looking to compete agianst make them attractive. Do you accept returns ?
Looking at the Timeline you have posted on KickStarter, your garment gets dyed after construction. The finish will never be uniform in this case, certainly not like the pics you have posted or a Lacoste product; in which case your site should project an Abercombie and Fitch or Urban Outfitters image.
Also, since you are planning to sell by the piece, have you accounted for postage ? Warehousing and projection of units are a dangerous territory too. Many established companys have sunk with their inventory.
A garment comparable to Lacoste or Burberry, by mail at $8 for a T shirt, with all components and construction made in USA, in the absense of a sweat shop is not possible !! If you can manage it, hats off to you !!
Your basic idea is to supply a comparable product at a cheap price. However, you are working with knit fabrics which when finished to meet standards you are aspiring for cost muchos $$$$.
but I'm really skeptical of these startups that say "we're going to disrupt [Luxury Designer Brand X] because we can make the same shirt and charge less". Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of these brands are riding on their brand equity, not the superior quality of their apparel.
It just seems like a bad way to position yourself, IMO.