It's what happened to Japan, but at least the emperor had the wherewithal to not kill japans civilian population, which had been trained and armed for a mainland invasion.
I think it’s reasonable to conclude that Israel is more willing to continue to commit atrocities against the Palestinians than the US was against the Japanese.
Like, I genuinely think Netanyahu is perusing a “ Lebensraum” strategy with Palestine. This is evidenced by their support of right wing Israeli settlers in Palestinian territory.
I’ve come to this realization as a Jewish person who was brought up on “Israel has a right to defend itself” during the second intafada. Israel has genuinely changed for the worse in a way that’s hard for a lot of people to see.
Japan surrendered before the US had the chance to play Israel in Japan. But Japan had the same strategy that Hamas uses - train civilians to attack to put the US in a position of having to decide if that mother is just a mother, or if that mother is gonna pull out a rifle.
I don’t think Israel believes that there is anyone that could “surrender” on behalf of the Palestinians. Also, given the nature of the conflict, surrender would inevitably lead back to the same problems that started it, which is that Israel cannot annex Palestine without either apartheid or genocide, and regime change is unlikely to lead to a stable two state solution since legitimate regimes haven’t been able to reach agreement in the past.
That's an odd point of view. With Operation Downfall, the Americans were planning literal genocide against the Japanese. If they hadn't surrendered after the atomic bombs, the projections were as high as 5-10 MILLION Japanese casualties (with several hundred thousand on the Allied side), precisely because Japanese policy had been to arm the citizenry with rakes and hoes if it came to that - i.e., the Japanese refusal to surrender despite there being no possible path to victory was going to cost the lives of many millions of their citizens. And America had little choice but to pursue that.
That America was willing to do this, if the bombs didn't work, seems to contradict your claim. (And I think the Americans had little choice to do so.)
I fully agree that America was very willing to commit atrocities, especially using atomic bombs (obviously) and firebombing civilian centers.
The key difference is that the US recognized that Japan could surrender, accepted that surrender, and instituted regime change with a goal of democratic prosperity.
I’m not convinced Israel would do the same. They certainly haven’t said anything about actual regime change and setting up a legitimate government.
> Operation Downfall, the Americans were planning literal genocide against the Japanese.
If you're at war and your opponent has lost but is foreign to the idea of surrender and fights to the last man, and you oblige him, you are pursuing war not genocide.
Aside from your despicable lack of humanity you aren’t even making a valid comparison to begin with. You are comparing fighting an armed nation (Japan) to refugees exercising their right to resist a foreign occupation.
My friend, if Hamas surrendered tomorrow, the death would stop. They have no allies, they have no support, the war is over. It's now just how much of their own people they are willing to grind up. Western liberals on the keyboards are not going to stop Israel. The fractured and shattered Islamic middle east is not going to stop Israel.
End the war, give up the land, and take the offer from Israel for first class tickets for every Palestinian to go live in Iran. Get your diplomacy and ideology straight, and maybe in 50 years your will have the economy and military needed to go take it back from Israel, and then they can be the ones to bend over for peace.
No we haven’t. But he won’t admit that. He wants nothing other than the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Don’t you worry — once that is achieved they will ethnically cleanse West Bank.
Again, Palestine has no cards left. They are powerless and have no friends with power. They completely failed at diplomacy over the last 50 years and completely failed at building an economy (other than weapons manufacturing).
They lost and lost badly. They can go regroup somewhere else and try to capture the land again in the future. But for now they should stop using their civilians as fodder to childishly delay the inevitable.
They do have a card to play: expose the savage, heart of darkness in Tel Aviv to the world. My guess is this will lead to a global revolt against Israel that will be impossible to overcome in today’s globalized world. Israel cannot be a pariah state and survive in the same way that North Korea can.
We have a bunch of liberal first world children screaming online about it*, but that's not going to do much. They were unaware of the conflict 5 years ago when they were 15. The people who move things know the story going way further back than Oct 8 2023. The adults are sick of the conflict and hold no more respect for Israel than they do for Palestine. Both sides have egregious violations, and tallying them is a futile and time wasting ordeal.
So the adults are ready for this to end. There is no choice winner, so the winner will just be the one who is stronger. The same way every other war has been decided.
*Granted, the Muslim world obviously has huge support for Palestine. But it's in word only. Palestine's "allies" pretty much said "Good luck bro" and then closed their doors. Probably because Palestine has the diplomatic skills of a toddler. Don't be fooled, Israel won this with diplomacy. Making friends with the right people and being a good friend to them will carry you far.
I’m not sure there is a government that can surrender at this point. Israel may very well have taken out any “leadership” that they view as being able to legitimately speak for a Palestinian state, if they ever thought there was one.
There has always been a question of what Israel’s strategic goal is here because it doesn’t make any sense. An at least rational answer would be “regime change”, but no evidence has come up to indicate this is the plan.
Since Israel isn’t attempting to stand up a legitimate Palestinian government, all that’s left is permanent occupation and/or genocide.
I agree. It's painfully obvious that nobody has a plan or even an idea what could be done. But that's because all options are garbage. Stay in Gaza? Guerilla warfare forever and more civilian deaths. Pull out of Gaza? Hamas rearms in a few years, starts shooting rockets again, Israel retaliates and more civilians casualties. Regime change? Good luck, all moderate voices are toothless against the Jihadists.
The fundamental problem here is Hamas. There is just nothing in this world you can offer them to stop this suicide mission. All they care about is destroying Israel. No matter the cost. And that has nothing to do with Israels conduct. I'm sure it's compounding after decades of bloodshed but deep down they just hate Jews.
