I wish more devices took field-replaceable cylindrical Li-ion cells. They're pretty common in flashlights and rare in other products where they would be advantageous.
It would be awesome if we were able to get more things besides vapes (and apparently some flashlights; I assume there are many niches where they are common) to use 18650 or even 21700 li-ion cells. I see most people I know buy AAs by the pallet and go through them regularly for their controllers, led lights, kids toys, etc.. and few I believe bother to dispose of them correctly.
Also, repeating your sentiment, for all the tech gadgets.. bluetooth speakers, I'm looking at you.. why not have replaceable batteries for those? There have to be enough vapers now that the knowledge of this type of battery as distinct from the old alkaline ones has passed into mainstream consciousness. This would be a huge selling feature for me.
The reasons I see are that it is because the rechargable li-ion are more dangerous and a fire hazard, but is this really true? As with most anything that can carry a risk if misused, I can find a few dozen instances where a vape battery went awry, but surely the benefits outweigh the concerns?
Edit: I do understand the irony of saying this on a post about when they do go boom.
The market for the end product (and the risk aversion of the manufacturer) makes a difference.
Flashlight and vape enthusiasts are mostly adults who likely trend as all three of: older and more knowledgeable, more likely to take and accept risks, and more willing to pay a premium for the benefits of replaceable batteries... and the companies that make vapes and high-powered enthusiast flashlights are probably less worried about a customer suing them over a battery issue than a large toy manufacturer. If you're a vape company, you have bigger safety issues to worry about -- like the normal operation of your products :)
> and few I believe bother to dispose of them correctly.
There are no mercury alkalines anymore for general consumer use, those collection bins were removed from stores in the 90's and they can be disposed of with normal waste.
I actually have a Bluetooth speaker that takes a removable 18650. It was branded "Polaris V8", but I think it's a white label product that's no longer in production. It still works, and most other ten year old Bluetooth speakers probably don't.
I'm with you on the risk/benefit calculation. E-waste is bad, and the option to bring a spare battery makes a lot of products more useful. A Li-ion cell can be dangerous if mishandled, but less so than a jug of gasoline or larger power tools.
This can be considerably mitigated by sticking a protection circuit on the end of a cell, which makes it no more dangerous than the proprietary Li-ion batteries used in things like cameras.
I didn't know many were still buying alkaline AAs in large quantities. I've been using LSD NiMH AAs and AAAs for I think more than 15 years and haven't looked back. They seem to work with everything.
There's still lots of poorly produced electronics that treat NiMH that is within its normal operating voltage as being out of juice, and either nag you or shut down completely. My supposedly high quality Logitech mouse is one example (probably not buying anything from Logitech ever again, they're one of those brands that are coasting on their old credibility).
If it runs on two batteries in series and you're willing to take a risk, you can get a 3.7V 14500 battery and then a dumb fake straight wire battery in there. Gives you 1.85V per-slot instead of the normal 1.5, which might be too much for the device, but beats the pants out of the 1.2V you get from NiMH AAs.
I got 14500s for my Logitech F710 game controllers, and then drilled a hole in the battery compartment of the controller to make them plug-in chargeable. I've only just played with them a few times - no guarantee this is a long-term solution, but it seems to work well for now.
Note that this does mean you'll have a bin of things that look like AAs but might cause a fire or melt if you put them into the wrong thing that accepts AA batteries (like the just-a-wire-fake-batteries have allcaps warnings about never ever putting them into a charger).
It actually gives you 2.1V per slot because a fully charged standard Li-ion cell is 4.2V. This is also sketchy because it will likely over-discharge the cell below 2.5V if not monitored carefully. Over-discharge makes it dangerous to charge the cell again.
Actual protected 14500s will be too long in most devices meant for AA, but it's possible to find protected 14430 cells marked as "14500" from some flashlight brands like Acebeam and Skilhunt. Those are safe with regard to over-discharge, but the voltage of a fully charged cell might still damage devices not rated for it.
I'd rate this modification as risky and only suitable for people with significant battery expertise.
Edit: saw the other comment mentioning 14500s with USB ports. These will be protected against short circuit and over-discharge, and are actually based on 14430 cells.
Ah, thanks! Good to know I dodged that bullet by blind luck. I had picked up a couple of USB-port charged version of one of those old chubby non-rechargeable lithium batteries that were used in early LED flashlights (CR2 I think) to resurrect some old steel LED flashlights I found in a drawer, and got funny fantasies about doing other devices this way.
I saw some articles and ads for doing it using 3.1V LiFePO4 batteries but I couldn't find any of those with USB charge-ports... I guess your warnings are why you're supposed to use the 3.1V Li-phosphates for that. So I went with the 3.7V LiIon because I really wanted that port.
I guess I dodged a bullet. Thanks for the warning. I actually did systems engineering as an undergrad (though I just work in software) so that makes me a bit overconfident with electronics even though I don't know jack about battery chemistry besides the basic theory. I'll be more careful on research next time I undertake this kind of project.
It seems like you might be looking for "1.5V Li-ion AA", which is a 14430 with a buck converter stuck on the end.
I have pretty much the opposite preference regarding charging: I'd much rather swap in a charged spare and stick the drained battery in a slot charger than charge batteries inside devices. There's no waiting that way.
As an aside, pretty much all the g604 is will end up with double click reliability issues or an inability to hold down the mouse button and drag. But you can easily replace the switches or there's vendors on eBay and AliExpress that I'll sell you a circuit board with the switches pre-soldered for replacement.
A fun trick is that if you're sure the batteries are in series you can sometimes swap out a pair of AA batteries for a 3.7V 14500 Lithium rechargeable and a fake AA battery (just a wire in an AA-sized plastic shell). Drill a hole in the battery-cover of the device where the 14500's USB port is and now your device is plug-in rechargeable, assuming it can handle 3.7V instead of the normal ~3.1V that comes from a pair of AAs (which isn't a huge stretch). Worked for my old Logitech game controllers.
Downside is that you've got parts in your bin that are dangerous because they look like AA batteries but could cause damage or even fires if somebody put them into the wrong AA thing. Make sure to mark the batteries loudly. I've electrical-taped the pairs together to prevent this problem.
I have a headlamp for hiking with a slightly different take on this.
It will take 3x ordinary or rechargeable cells, or it will take it's Li-Ion pack that is the same size as the 3 cells side by side. Designed in from the start so there are no dangerous bits. Hiking headlamps are something where you do *not* want to be left with a dead battery!
A headlamp that can run on either AA or 14500 tends to be a better approach than this. Those proprietary batteries are usually pretty expensive compared to a 14500, and three AAAs as spares aren't nearly as convenient as one AA.
There are a handful of these on the market and they're not common in retail stores. I'm fond of the Skilhunt H150.
Follow up on this: from conversation elsewhere, another important safety tip is to get the 14500s with fancy electronics incl a USB port, because without that the battery will be a fire-hazard in this kind use.
That's true, but it's pretty common to stick a protection circuit on the end of a cell, making it similarly safe to the proprietary Li-ion batteries that power cameras and the like.
It's also common to not put protection on the end of an 18650, which is probably a big reason we don't see more of these in user-serviceable devices. Even if you ship a device with a protected cell, the inherent implication of an 18650 socket is that someone is going to buy a cell from somewhere else and stick it in there. (and maybe throw a few in their junk drawer along with some loose change and rusty silverware)
Perhaps one of the things that should be included in right to repair legislation is stronger liability protection in cases where a third-party battery is installed in a device.
I do often stick unprotected cells in flashlights that came with protected ones. It's important to know whether the flashlight can over-discharge the cell, but most can't, and it's important to not short-circuit them. I suggest people who don't want to learn about batteries stick with protected.
Eh... I strongly disagree... We shouldn't let companies put out products that burn parents' house down because grandma didn't research 18650 protection circuits when she bought the grandkids some batteries for their toy on Amazon.
Consumer product safety regulation is written in blood, and exists for a very good reason.
Let the advanced right-to-repair audience open up the device with a screwdriver and install a new LiPo pouch. We don't need a battery door to let kids in like it's as safe as AAs in a gameboy.
The screw on the battery door is typically a choking hazard mitigation. The idea being, if you know how to use a screwdriver, you are skilled enough to not eat the battery.
I think there’s still a big chasm between that level of skill and knowing there’s a difference between protected and unprotected 18650s… or even knowing what an 18650 is at all. Most people have never heard of them.
The right-to-repair “I know what I’m doing” crowd can disassemble the device as long as it isn’t glued shut.
Other mitigations are possible, such as a battery compartment designed for cells that are 69mm long, as is typical for protected cells instead of 65mm. I'll admit I complain about this when reviewing a flashlight (use longer springs so it's not picky), but it's likely the right choice for many applications.
It's not the right choice for all applications of course. Products intended for children and that are particularly demanding in terms of electrical power require greater caution than speakers or most flashlights.
> The batteries that come with the light are perfect, but all the panasonic 18650s I have purchased are about 1/8 (3mm) too short.
> I was thinking of using aluminum foil.
If people on enthusiast forums are struggling to put batteries in their devices safely, the mass market is doomed. Proper safety engineering is to design a device in a way where foreseeable misuse by a layperson does not result in a safety issue.
This isn't incompatible with a right to repair. Just simply don't glue the device shut. The LiPos used in many devices are common jelly-bean components.
I don't think it should be required that devices protect users from unsafe modifications even if they're foreseeable. I can also tape down the safety bar on the lawnmower, remove the guards from the circular saw, and take the firing pin block out of the gun. I'm sure people have done all of those things, and some have regretted it.
What I'm advocating is a bit beyond just repairability; field-replaceable batteries the ability to charge spares externally, and the ability to share spares between devices are substantial benefits.
You must have a charge controller in Li-Ion between each voltage point because overcharging a cell is asking for trouble.
Sealed battery pack, you can put a little controller in there with it. Loose cell, you either give up some capacity and add some cost by putting a controller in each cell, or you trust that the controller in whatever charges it is good. Bare cell, good charger, fine. Bare cell, iffy charger, you might get the blame when the cell goes up. Thus it's very hard to find good bare cells.
There's a flurry of battery holders that accept 21700 cells, but the power delivery is just too weak IMHO.
From memory, the max output was about 20~30W for the bigger models [0]. For 2 cell types it gives 10W, so barely good enough to slowly charge a smartphone.
LFP capacity is terrible. LMFC is a recent development which closes that gap; it's still heavier than NMC or NCA, but that's a worthwhile tradeoff in many applications.
