Credit where credit is due: the EU gets a lot of flack for being bureaucratic, hidebound, sclerotic, whatever, but the single currency has been a success and it's still expanding, 26 years after its creation.
Also, the addition of Bulgaria means it's almost possible to travel from Spain to Greece entirely through the Eurozone, with only a thin sliver of Serbia or Macedonia in the way. (Assuming we include Montenegro and Kosovo in the Eurozone: technically they aren't, but for all practical purposes they are.)
It'll also be interesting to see who's next. Czechia is not far off but doesn't seem to be in a hurry, while Romania wants in but still seems to be a ways off. Poland and Hungary will stay outside unless there are major political changes.
Polish here, very much against adopting the euro until our standard of living and growth rate matches Germany (no at least not for next 10 years). Why? Because the disadvantages far out weight the benefits for developing countries.
The biggest issue is giving up one of the biggest instrument of control over the economy to a supra-national non-democratic organisation. Surely the monetary policy will follow what is best for the biggest economies (or at best the average) while local policy is way better tweaked towards local needs. The best example of this is money supply. The money supply ideally should match the economy growth rate +X so there is tiny inflation (and definitely no deflation). This growth rate is very different in "old EU" and "new EU" countries. So what happens? In time things get more expensive much faster in countries that grow faster while incomes stay the same. This is a huge negative and this is on top of price increases happening on "day 1" due to rounding up during conversion.
Historically the biggest benefit that was sold as something to outweigh this was a claim that "inflation will be low" and big inflation spikes are impossible. This came about from the short sighted view that all inflation stems from printing money and by giving up our control over it to somebody else we somehow "protect ourselves". This was proven wrong during covid when inflation was vastly different in let's say Latvia and Germany despite sharing a currency.
So what is the bottom line? Is euro all bad? No, it is very useful so we have a common currency in the euro zone that is not controlled from across the ocean. This is a huge benefit, but the same benefit is achieved by having it be a second currency like it is now in Poland rather than the only currency. (you can pay in euros in almost everywhere if you prefer as well as get it from cash machines etc)
Being able to buy groceries with euros is not a strong, or even related, argument to the point you're making. Even ignoring the real economic cost of having two currencies, there is no serious economist that would argue Poland joining the EUR zone is negative for Poland (as opposed to for stronger EU economies). Every single historic metric points in the other direction. Poland's economy is maturing and strengthening and median household income is slowly reaching parity with neighbouring countries so this particular argument may only hold for maybe another decade but until then it's a bit misguided. Also, not for nothing but the Polish economy is mostly doing as well as it does because of the metric ton of EU subsidies injected into it the past decades. Poland is one of the largest net receivers of EU money since 2004 so arguing it or its single currency was somehow a net negative to Poland is, and by extension an odd argument to make for someone benefiting from the above as a Polish citizen.
You have to be careful to make a distinction being in the EU and using the Euro as your currency. You can benefit from the EU common market, with its uniform rules/standards, easy capital flows, subsidies, and industrial policy. All without using the Euro as your currency, and being subject to the monetary policy of the ECB.
Being in the EU without using the Euro has been pretty good for Poland.
They are free to be. When joining the EU, Poland accepted to join the monetary union at some point, but there is no date set, so in theory it can be infinite. And with its current strategy to drastically modernize and increase its military force, there is no doubt it will not met the financial criteria anytime soon so nobody is worried about that.
> Even ignoring the real economic cost of having two currencies, there is no serious economist that would argue Poland joining the EUR zone is negative for Poland (as opposed to for stronger EU economies). Every single historic metric points in the other direction.
The inability to set monetary policy is a strong argument. Just ask Greece (and Spain):
Also, not for nothing but the Polish economy is mostly doing as well as it does because of the metric ton of EU subsidies injected into it the past decades.
That's one part of it. The other part is that the country had just as much human capital and economic potential as Western European states, but was held back artificially by the Partitions, WW2, the Soviet Union, and the lack of Marshall Plan investment that Western Europe received.
Sorry, but the narrative of "Poland is only doing well because the EU is helping" (of which German companies are benefitting from tremendously) is a historically narrow way to analyze the situation.
Well, it's a fact, not a narrative. I think the actual debate is whether or not boosting economies of countries in the EU that for one reason or another were or are behind on the curve is a net win. I think it is. Just as it is perfectly justified for other countries to feel a bit hard done by if that same country after an estimates 280 billion euro injection is still rejecting the shared currency of that body.
The point is that "feeling a bit hard done by" rings a little hollow if the country feeling this way is the reason the recipient country needs investment in the first place. 280 billion euro is still less than a third of the estimated amount of damage from WW2 alone.
You can't possibly compare Poland to Bulgaria with 1/8 Poland's GDP and 17% its population. For Bulgaria the Euro is completely fine, as the Lev has been pegged to the Deutche Mark and later the Euro for ages. It's exports are basically raw materials and grain. Most of the other stuff they produce is sold domestically. I think I've only seen Bulgarian sunflower oil, mineral water, ketchup and pasta in stores outside the country. For a state with so feeble exports and a pegged currency it really doesn't matter, only adds up currency conversion fees. They might want to attract more tourism and investments.
I find his view a bit polarized, but can't really see him comparing those countries at all.
But if we talk about Polish-Bulgarian exchanges:
Those two countries actually have more or less the same numbers of Euro spent on import and export between each other. Bulgaria doubled export to Poland in just 2 years. Food products are important, but Bulgaria also exports to Poland many metals, mechanical and electrical devices, pharmaceuticals...
The biggest Polish import from Bulgaria in 2023 were almost a billion Euro on guns and ammunition. "Seeds and oily fruits" (whatever is the correct translation) were 20x less than that.
Bulgaria has a significant services sector. Not only tourism but it is a popular near-shoring destination for many western European countries, especially Germany.
Yes, but it's still agri products sold for pennies. Compare that to motor vehicles, car parts, furniture and sanitary hardware that Poland exports. Also, I never ate Shopska salad made with Dutch tomatoes in Bulgaria, even in restaurants outside of Sofia. I can tell the difference, they almost always served the good ripe stuff that has taste, not the watery green variety or the huge Greek tomatoes with air gaps inside.
> The biggest issue is giving up one of the biggest instrument of control over the economy to a supra-national non-democratic organisation
This is the point. Germany managed to set up a really independent central bank (which is a non- democratic, bureaucratic, etc… thingy) and inflation was at the target for decades. Italy, France, etc… didn’t, and inflation was 2-3 point above target and above the German levels. So they joined the Euro, which has a governance very similar to the Deutsche Mark.
To this day, inflation in European countries outside the Eurozone is higher.
> Germany managed to set up a really independent central bank (which is a non- democratic, bureaucratic, etc… thingy) and inflation was at the target for decades.
And Germany being overzealous in fiscal and monetary policy has stagnated growth and limited policy options. Look at all the rigmarole that had to be done so that Germany could start considering military spending to deal with the new global situation.
(Heck, if Republicans would actually be interested in fiscal discipline, perhaps they should move to Germany.)
> And Germany being overzealous in fiscal and monetary policy has stagnated growth and limited policy options.
German fiscal discipline is a tool of strategic independence. It started in ‘49 when they knew they would eventually had to reabsorb East Germany. Today it allows them to re-arm without having to ask permission.
Over the past 20 years, Germany grew more than Italy, France and the UK.
Slovak here living in Czechia. Adopting euro would give you a seat at the ECB granting influence over monetary policy in the whole Eurozone. You'd also get cheaper money (think mortgage rates going from ~7% (current rates in Poland) to less than 4% (current rates in Slovakia)). Do you have to exchange money when traveling abroad? Now imagine buying/selling stuff abroad as a company and multiply that by a lot. You get the picture. For countries that deal mostly with Eurozone based countries (which are most countries in Europe) you get massive savings that'll make the country more attractive to outside investors. Any potential price increase would be dwarfed by the rise in wages. All of this happened in Slovakia (and would be great to happen in Czechia if not for previous eurosceptic governments that massaged public opinion heavily). Sadly, the successive corrupt governments of Robert Fico ate many of the benefits to ordinary folks and Russian propaganda machine left some people questioning the value of euro and EU membership. But even 15+ years after adopting € the approval rating in Slovakia is very strong. All of this would be much worse without the euro. Personally, I'm all for everything that gets Europe closer to federalization and strengthens it.
>Slovak here living in Czechia. Adopting euro would give you a seat at the ECB granting influence over monetary policy in the whole Eurozone.
This is my argument exactly. A seat gives a certain small amount if influence, the resulting policy will be an approximation of what is best for everyone. This may be pretty far from what is best for a developing country with fast growth if the majority is well developed countries with low growth.
Imagine you and your neighbour decide to pool your money and invest together. He is 65 years old and has 50k EUR, you are 21 years old and you have 1k. He prefers to put his money in a bank savings acct that will allow him to withdraw anytime (he's retiring soon) and he doesn't want any risk. You on the other hand don't mind risk at all, but you need a high rate of return (stocks would be good for you, maybe of the more "adventurous" kind).
If you pool your money he will have much more to say so you end up maybe with a 6 months term savings deposit to get a little more gain. You're both unhappy because that is not enough profit to you and it still locks up his money preventing him from choosing an early retirement. Compromises sometimes work for both sides, sometimes they don't work for anyone...
>You'd also get cheaper money (think mortgage rates going from ~7% (current rates in Poland) to less than 4% (current rates in Slovakia)).
You can get Euro denominated mortgages in Poland as well. As well as Swiss Frank, Dollar etc. A country does not have to get rid of its currency for people to enjoy lower interest rates in other currencies.
You can make an argument if you earn in PLN and take a mortgage in EUR it exposes you to the currency risk and it does. It is your personal choice. But there are plenty of jobs (usually higher paying) that pay a set amount of EUR or USD and it's often these kinds of people for whom these mortgages make sense.
We even have a long running scandal involving almost a million of people that got Swiss Frank mortgages over a decade ago that had interest rates below 1% and the banks structured these deals in such a way they made a killing on exchange commission. Basically people didn't realise they had to pay in PLN and the mortgage provider would convert to CHF applying their exorbitant conversion rates. There was no way to just pay in CHF. But this story is over a decade old and people have learned the lesson.
> This is my argument exactly. A seat gives a certain small amount if influence, the resulting policy will be an approximation of what is best for everyone. This may be pretty far from what is best for a developing country with fast growth if the majority is well developed countries with low growth.
The point is that all of the countries in the EU are well developed countries with similar growth and closely tied economies. The example you have given would be more accurate if you'd compare a 65yr old with 50k savings and a 55yr old with 40k savings. What would be the (ideal) alternative? Having custom currency with policy tailored for each region? Each industry? Each person? Sometimes there's more value in unity.
> You can get Euro denominated mortgages in Poland as well.
Have you tried getting one? I did. The bank deduces 10-15% from your income due to currency risk when calculating interest rate and max loan amount. There are plenty of folks working abroad and earning EUR instead of local currency. Ask them about their opinion on this.
The tradeoff between monetary sovereignty and eurozone stability is real, especially for economies still catching up. That said, there's also a risk in staying out too long. You still get a lot of the downsides (imported inflation, capital flow pressures) but none of the influence. It's a weird halfway state...
Eventually they will catch up to the level of GDP Germany have and then they will start to roughly match their growth rate, over time. It is a lot easier to catch up than to break new ground when it comes to gdp per capita.
I agree, It think Spain adopted the Euro too soon and we'd have weathered the GFC better if we still had control of our monetary policy at the time. And we didn't grow as much as we could have in the preceding boom phase.
It's unfair to compare Poland with Baltics due to the size and diversity of the economies but adopting the Euro there has coincided with massive economic growth. I also think it's rather likely that comparable economic growth could have been achieved without it but it's certainly easier to travel and trade.
Another Polish here: truth is, whether we have a single currency or not doesn't matter as much as people think it does. For most people, it's about symbolism, not about practical economic consequences. I guarantee you that average person has no clue what it really means for the economy to adopt euro. BTW the argument "let's wait for our economy to catch up with Germany" is just deceitful because there will always be differences between economies. Imagine arguing that Nebraska shouldn't be using the dollar until its economy catches up with California... which is going to happen "not in my lifetime".
I am strongly pro-euro. Why? Because again, economic consequences are way smaller than most people think, and it's about symbolism. It's about slowly marching towards European Federation instead of NIMBYism that prevents EU from actually living up to its full potential. Imagine a world where the entire European continent is a single political entity - we'd be unquestionable superpower. But no, because "muh independence", and the end result is that we can't do shit on the international stage because we're too busy arguing with each other.
But EU becoming federation has far bigger challenges than Poland not adopting euro.
Adopting euro has political consequences, first and foremost, not "symbolical". It is quite sad that people and leaders in our country mostly conflate politics with symbols and gestures, because that is causing us to be what we are - losers.
That's a bigger philosophical question, but I assume that in the context of this discussion "being a rich and powerful society is good for you" can be taken as an axiom.
> In time things get more expensive much faster in countries that grow faster while incomes stay the same. This is a huge negative and this is on top of price increases happening on "day 1" due to rounding up during conversion.
Could you perhaps expand on this effect, ideally in a mechanistic manner, or point me towards a source that explains the influencing factors and outcomes? I am trying to understand the different processes at hand.
I've learned this long time ago. Probably early 2000s when there was the debate about joining the EUR.
I thought the basic explanation about money supply was sufficient, but I can try expanding on this.
A typical medium sized country having its own language that has had its own currency for a long time is much more internally economically integrated than externally. We can simplify this by saying huge majority of businesses take part in economic activity within the country, not outside.
This gives us some basis to consider it in separation to it's neighbours even if they are in a single market (smaller countries have less separation, bigger countries more, many factors influence the depth of separation but it exists strongly in countries like Poland).
So this is why it makes sense to talk in terms of money supply in terms of this "island" of economic activity regardless if it has its own currency or shares another.
The we have certain amount of GDP growth each year. More goods and services are produced each year. But simplifying, let's say you and your neighbor are on an island and you have 52 tokens with witch you trade. You catch fish and he works in a field of wheat. You pay him 52 tokens over the course of the year for his wheat and likewise he pays you the same for the fish (one per week for a price of one token).
Suddenly you find a net on the beach and you don't need to catch the fish with a DIY rod. You can catch 5 fish per week rather than 2 of which you sold 1. Now you have 4 fish per week to sell, but the guy only has 1 token per week. So if you want to sell all your fish you have to drop the price to 0.25. You do double the work (the nets are heavy) you get 4x the fish and yet you get the same tokens and wheat. Not fair. So you don't catch more fish.
This is why we need money supply to grow (or be procured by exports, but let's leave this complex topic for now) if the total of goods and services grows too. Ideally at the same rate or slightly more so goods do not depreciate in price.
I already mentioned one reason why deflation is bad, it demotivates producers from growth. Second reason is many costs are static, so it may send them into bankruptcy if others sell more than them at diminished prices. The third reason can also illustrate why we need some inflation.
The inflation is necessary for people to have an incentive to invest their money rather than stuff them into a mattress. If we have deflation it literally makes sense not to spend your money today, because you will get more goods for it tomorrow. Until everyone does this and prices go so low half of business go bankrupt.
So this is why you need money supply to slightly exceed the GDP growth. This subject can be as simple or as complex as you want. But there are basic truths that work on all levels of complexity. This is one of them.
Denmark have pegged the krone to the euro. They haven't adopted it, but tied themselves to the Euro. They still maintain control of their currency, but most of that control is used to maintain the value to the euro.
That's because the powers that be want the euro, but the people didn't. They were asked in 1992, 1993 and 2000; and effectively they said no to the euro every time (yes, I know; in 1993, the euro was specifically opted out, but the fact that it was approved when the year before a referendum with the euro was rejected suggests – at least partially – that it was a rejection of the euro (among other things)). Denmark thus came into the EU with 4 opt-outs (one of which has since been rescinded (defence) and one which turned out not to matter (union citizenship)), and they can only be removed with referendum (see for instance the euro one in 2000).
Prior to the adoption of the euro, the Danish crown was pegged to the D-mark (since about the mid-1980s), because Germany was the biggest export market for Denmark (still is), and thus having a currency that's stable towards what the Germans are using has been good for Danish exports (less sure how relevant that still is). (Sidebar; had the original motivation of Alternative für Deutschland been successful and abandoned the Euro for a return to the D-mark (neumark?), it would have put Denmark in an awkward position.)
This all reads as symbolic nationalist policies with an added burocracy thus costing more than it should. "We need own coin to control [insert nationalist thing here]" but in practice you won't and never did.
The last time I was in Denmark my bank nicely charged me for the conversion despite the coin being fixed to the euro. It is just a money costing machine which adds no value.
If being nationalistic means preferring that currency in your country is controlled by the government you have elected and not by ECB that you have zero control over, then yes.
The same way as having the seat in the UN's Security Council gives you the influence, but in the end France has little to say when compared with US or China.
Germany even without any representation in ECB will have much more to say than other countries. Because in the end it is a real political power that allows anyone to make decisions.
The point is that all of the countries in the EU are well developed countries with similar growth and closely tied economies. I can't imagine a monetary policy that would benefit one state while at the same time damaging the other one so much it would negate all the benefits of joining Eurozone.
It is not fully pegged, and though it ties their hands somewhat, this is not "effectively" the same as adopting the euro. Krone still can be un-pegged if Denmark decides to do so.
As noted, the politicians wanted to switch to the euro; but it's the voters who said no. Twice or thrice, depending on how you count. That isn't a case of "symbolic nationalistic policies", but rather a state apparatus trying to get around the rejection, whilst sticking to the text of the referenda (but perhaps not the spirit of it).
If (when?) there's another Euro crisis, being pegged gives you a lot more room to manoeuvre than being actually in the Euro. If necessary de-pegging would be disruptive but very much possible, if you're fully in the Euro then you are riding the train to its destination whether you like it or not
De-pegging would require selling your euro reserves and buy other currencies. I wouldn’t call it disruptive but a disaster. You’ll end up getting enormous loans that generations after you will have to pay.
You are overcomplicating this. Poland is nepotist kleptocracy, EU and NATO membership away from Belarus. They should adopt euro since yesterday, it's strategic goal in line with membership in EU and NATO.
Switzerland can have their own currency, where inflation over 2% is a scandal. Sweden can have their own currency, they produce their own cruisers, submarines, fighter jets, and artillery. Poland kicked out their last baby boom into emigration and now have the same demographic and immigration crisis as geriatric Italy and Germany. They have nuclear power plant company operating with its board receiving executive salaries for fifteen years now and... no nuclear power plants. Accumulated inflation since pre Covid era is 43% and doesn't look to be stopping. Own currency enables enormous fraud and creates class of oligarchs.
Switzerland is not in the EU but is in e.g. Schengen Area (which seems to be disintegrating right now). They are in a luxurious position to cherrypick whatever they want.
The EU institution because of pragmatic and systematic properties. Ultimately to say something is democratic or not is a subjective opinion, but EU proponents have made the mistake to brush such criticism away.
Since then the EU is mostly developing in a wrong direction.
The EU Parliament is directly elected. The EU Council is comprised of EU country head of states, which are all directly elected. The EU Council and EU Parliament then elect the EU Comission.
The EU Parliament is not democratically elected because votes from member states have a different weight. The election is free but not fair. It's also one of the few parliaments that can't propose laws on their own but can only veto laws proposed by the EU Commission.
The powerful EU Commission being appointed by governments (and again only approved by the Parliament) is a form of executive federalism. This makes the chain of legitimacy longer and longer which is hardly positive for democracy.
Small states are usually given more weight in parliament. This is commonly considered more democratic.
The commission is elected by the parliament. This is democratic.
Would it be an improvement if parliament could propose laws and commission members. Maybe. But saying that this makes the EU undemocratic is unreasonable.
in most contries votes have different weights. look at the US, or other western countries where minorities for example are boosted to be represented in the parliament. judging by this no country is democratic.
In the US, votes in the congress, senate and president have exactly equal weights between states? Not an expert but I suspect we're in the kettle-pot area here. Not even getting into abysmal voting procedure/implementation which would be inconceivable in the EU.
To you it may be democratic enough. Not for me and the parliament lacks legislative initiative which in reality means the commission steers the ship.
It is more of a bureaucratic technocracy with democratic fig leaves. People often attribute competence to technocracies, but that is an illusion.
Also I don't believe you can move up government function to layers above your national government and still call it representative.
In reality the culture and circumstances of parliament members is too far removed from the voters. I also cannot know the other representatives, so my voting decision will always be restricted to a shallow popularity contest. But as explained, this doesn't matter, because the elected representatives cannot implement any agenda.
> In reality the culture and circumstances of parliament members is too far removed from the voters. I also cannot know the other representatives, so my voting decision will always be restricted to a shallow popularity contest. But as explained, this doesn't matter, because the elected representatives cannot implement any agenda.
That’s an odd thing to say when there is a real chance of the commission failing a confidence vote this week. We might end up with a new commission due to the conservatives colluding with the far right to abandon the climate agenda entirely.
This is a very concrete consequence of the voters electing right-wing parliamentarians.
Democracy is a real democracy if voters feel represented. Perhaps there is a voter here and there that has an objective perspective if representation is enough or not. But I wouldn't bet on it.
But you said yourself, that there are different lavels of directness. That is the core argument where everyone has different expectations.
The core argument sounds a lot like "it's not true if I don't feel like it's true". Which of course decades of anti-eu parties and ads can have a massive impact on.
You don't have to engage with this kind of criticism but it isn't entirely recent or new nor too complicated ot understand the issues people might have.
I think there's a reality for (visiting) consumers, Schengen has more value than the currency union, at least if you're not a user of cash.
My experiences in non-Euro, Schengen countries is that all payment terminals offer me the choice to pay in Euro or the local currency. In many cases in tourist areas (of Czechia, Poland, and Bulgaria) I only encountered terminals that asked for payment in Euro.
Schengen is incredibly useful, especially if you have to transit through several countries. It's also true that the decrease in cash usage has reduced the benefit of the euro.
However, the benefits of a single currency go beyond cash. It's also about understanding prices. You see a sign for coffee and it's 1199 Hungarian Forint -- or it's 14.99 Polish złoty. It's not clear at all what those numbers mean. Sure it's possible to pull out a currency calculator app to see what the rate is today and what it means in euros. It's not an insurmountable problem, but it is bigger than a mere inconvenience. It's constant friction on not really understanding what's going on. If those coffee prices were instead 2.99 € vs 3.53 €, you would immediately see that the Polish coffee is 20% more expensive.
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As for the payment terminals offering to pay in Euro, as others have already noted, that's a scam. There is a hidden fee, usually around 3.5% - 5.0% of your total, that you get charged for this "convenience". Refusing this and paying in the listed currency will mean that your own bank will do the conversion, which is basically always going to be far cheaper.
Unfortunately this currency conversion scam is so lucrative that even big brands engage in it. Amazon for example asks what currency your card is in. If you select some currency other than what this sepecific Amazon's listed prices are in, well, you're in for another juicy hidden fee, this time to Amazon.
This isn't my experience, so I think people should pay attention to their specific situation.
Granted, I haven't recently been to any EU country without the Euro, but my main bank charges extortionate conversion fees, 2.sth%, with a ridiculous minimum per transaction.
A few months ago, I've ordered something off Amazon UK (while in the UK) and the conversion they offered was very close to the official GBP / EUR exchange rate, way below my bank's minimum. The price wasn't high, either, on the order of 10 €.
My experience is similar to yours. Banks and credit cards here, love to charge a 7% (total) currency conversion fee. I happily allow Amazon (1%), and basically everyone else to do this as it is much, much cheaper.
There are different financial experiences in different countries.
Non-Schengen EU Passports are basically the same thing for e.g. inter-railing or other journeys involving multiple border crossings.
Also in Europe people use the likes of Revolut to set up virtual native currency accounts on the fly (with IBAN) with FX free transactions up to a certain level per month dependent on tier.
> Non-Schengen EU Passports are basically the same thing
It's not about passports, it's about border controls within the area. Before Schengen you would have to wait for hours and hours in a queue at the border. Now that border check doesn't exist anymore. The check doesn't exist regardless of what passport you have, there's just nobody there.
It's usually better to pay in the local currency than Euro. The currency still has to be exchanged somewhere, and the banks usually have better rates than the terminal operators.
I’ve even had my credit card provider message me to warn me before after putting a couple of transactions through! Hardly an unbiased source, but their rates are much much better
Hm I always wondered about what this choice actually translates to, what’s the underlying logic determining how what I pay in -> where conversion gets made?
It's called DCC and you are legally required to be offered a choice. If you choose the local currency, your home bank does the exchange and the rate is basically always better. If you choose your home currency, the terminal operator does the exchange at a terrible rate and often slaps on a hefty fee for the "convenience".
To make things more complicated: it's not necessarily your home bank making the exchange, it can also be your card scheme (e.g. MasterCard/Visa/...). However, this is something you don't get a choice in. Your bank has an agreement with the scheme which foreign currencies are handled by whom. In any case, the rates used by the schemes are generally also pretty good.
The lack of direct documentation/instructions or link in the terminals to official rules strikes me as horrible ux. You basically just have to be in the know or know who to ask?
It is horrible UX and one might argue intentional. The terminals are provided by the acquirer, i.e. the same party that stands to make extra money if you let them handle the currency exchange.
In Germany, there was a sliver of time where stores essentially taped a piece of paper to terminals with instructions and big red arrows to select a specific scheme because that would benefit the store (and not cost the consumer extra). It didn't really stick, however. I suspect because it was two extra button presses and the consumer wouldn't notice either way.
Payment terminals can offer whatever currency exchanges they want, but usually it's just a way to fleece you on the spread, nobody is doing you any favors, it's just that whoever in the chain gets to perform the exchange gets to set the fees and the spread and most people get confused by currency exchange so it's in every middle man of the chain's interest to be the one to perform it and get the spread themselves.
If you use your bank's rate by paying in foreign currency then this is usually fair, at most they will add a 1% foreign currency transaction fee.
When it comes to exchanging cash, avoid currency exchanges at places like airports, tourist hotspots, etc. as they will usually offer worse rates than elsewhere.
Except if you are a Finnish person who lives right next to Sweden (SEK) and Norway (NOK) who are not using Euro (and Russia but that's a different story).
I have always felt it was a mistake allowing countries inside the EU but not the currency. But when one looks at the dates - and they are 6 years apart - it becomes clear why. I wonder how it would have turned out had Euro and EU been launched together. Would it have been "a package" or optional?
All EU countries are required to join the euro. This was agreed in the 1992 Maastricht treaty when the EU was founded (and the EMU, which was the starting point of the euro). Only Denmark and the UK negotiated an opt-out at the time.
Only problem is that there are no deadlines and it's up to the country to make a plan for adopting the euro.
Are you sure it's in Maastricht? I think the automatic requirements met -> has to join were added in the Lisbon treaty, Maastricht just established the requirements but didn't force joining, which is why some older eu countries which would meet them haven't joined yet.
what? the ECB is buying state bonds. maybe thats the reason the ECB is its own state, no authorities allowed to enter the building. wondering how they will audit the ECB. ahh right, they wont. :)
> Credit where credit is due: the EU gets a lot of flack for being bureaucratic, hidebound, sclerotic, whatever, but the single currency has been a success and it's still expanding, 26 years after its creation.
For certain definitions of "success". The 2010s weren't such a great time:
Poland will not adopt it in foreseeable future because it makes no sense: the Polish currency (zloty) acts as a kind of bumper in difficult times. It's very simple: something bad happens like a crisis or a war, investors immediately sell assets deemed as risky (such as zloty), zloty goes down by x%, and automatically Polish products and services become more attractive by x%. This all happens by itself. So for the Polish economy it's a no brainer.
For people themselves, they're not so keen either as they know well adopting euro was abused in other countries to increase prices (and not just round them up a bit). So basically nobody wants it, even if there are a few real benefits of joining, such as potentially lower mortgage rates which are among the highest in the EU).
Euro was part of the Maastricht treaty which formed the EU as we know it today in 1992. The euro part was a power move of France against a reunited Germany which back story origins in the early 80s. Obviously backfired.
Also, the addition of Bulgaria means it's almost possible to travel from Spain to Greece entirely through the Eurozone, with only a thin sliver of Serbia or Macedonia in the way. (Assuming we include Montenegro and Kosovo in the Eurozone: technically they aren't, but for all practical purposes they are.)
It'll also be interesting to see who's next. Czechia is not far off but doesn't seem to be in a hurry, while Romania wants in but still seems to be a ways off. Poland and Hungary will stay outside unless there are major political changes.