$3 is small enough that almost everyone will just eat the cost. I have a theory that they do this intentionally in some things(well Uber I've never used lift). Almost every time I order food and something is wrong or missing they'll give me a refund that is $2-3 off what it should be. Like if I order a $5 item and it's missing their service will refund me $2. At that point I can chose to spend literally an hour going through different support flows to try to reach a human who will correct it and give me the extra $2 or I can eat the loss. It's happened to me at least a dozen times now so I imagine it's common enough across the whole world to add millions of revenue each year.

Speaking of small costs, some time ago I paid 2 euros with my credit card in order to enter the central train station toilets in Milan, Italy.

The toilets were awfully dirty, there was no toilet paper and no soap. I took some pictures just in case, then I filed a chargeback with my bank. After some weeks, they gave me my 2 euros back, and the company that manages the toilets probably paid a small fine to MasterCard or whatever.

Was it a waste of time, for just 2 euros? Sure. But if nobody starts complaining, nothing will ever be fixed.

> Was it a waste of time, for just 2 euros? Sure. But if nobody starts complaining, nothing will ever be fixed.

This is how I feel. Money is money. If you don't complain, why not just start donating to these corporations? It's effectively the same thing. I've successfully argued over a difference of $0.90 on a restaurant order (they rung up a different appetizer than I actually ordered). If you don't push back, they'll never get better.

Funny you say this, a year or two ago I contacted Amazon about adjusting the price for something I had ordered the day prior, since it went on sale. It hadn't shipped yet, and they said no problem, we'll refund you the $7 price difference - but we can't do that until the item arrives, just contact us when it does.

So I get the item, contact support for my price match and they say sorry, we can only give you $5 back. I get upset because that's not what I was told, and have a screenshot of the chat to prove it.

We went back and forth forever, I got more and more angry and eventually returned the item for the full amount, and prime had just recently renewed and was in the refund window, so I got a refund for that.

Unfortunately I need Prime where I live, so I signed up for it again a few days later, but used a free trial month.

The whole thing was a giant waste of time, and felt very "optimized".

Doordash did to me for 70cents or so once. There was a missing item in an order, no big deal, app let's you report it, and the exact item that was missing.

But instead of refunding the $2 it cost, they refunded like $1.19 or something to that affect.

DoorDash.. either the drivers can selectively identify the most expensive entree and remove it without disturbing anything… or restaurant owners figured out they could just leave it out without any real penalty. Happened so many times I got tired of arguing and chargebacks and moved on. No issues with other services.. someone figured out a grift.

I'm not sure I'm reading you correctly, but if you mean it's a small problem because $3 isn't much money then, heck yes, it's a microscopic problem (is there something smaller than microscopic because if so then it's whatever that thing is)! But I didn't bring it up to complain about the $3 per se. I can elaborate, but I'm not sure if that's what you were specifically referring to or if I'm misunderstanding your question.

A tiny problem, that would cost them nothing to fix, and they chose not to. This is a story about shitty customer service, not $3 being lost.

You can dispute via your credit card. They'll care quickly enough.

Lyft will ban your account if you issue a chargeback. You’ll get your money back but if you want to continue to use the service this is not a good option.

Do it anyway. You get your money back, it costs them more money, and the more they ban people over stuff like this the faster you run shitty companies out of business.

To do anything else promotes them doing the same thing to you in the future and other people.

And soon enough you don't have any apps to use.

Sometimes you gotta pick your fights. Chargebacks to gatekeepers are the worst because life is long and you will always lose.

it's why you take them to small claims court. Unfortunately, the terms and conditions have made sure they are clear of small claims by forcing you to do arbitration, which is more expensive for you than them (in relative terms, unless they also put into the T&C to pay for your arbitration costs - which some companies have done iirc, such as epic games).

Chargebacks are the last resort - only really worth doing if it is a large amount that you will miss if not charged back.

Both Uber's and Lyft's arbitration agreements explicitly allow you to use small claims court.

Chargebacks are the reverse of these kinds of small thefts. A company is free to take you to small claims court over a chargeback, it’s really not worth their time though.

As such it’s often preferable for an individual vs arbitration.

> it’s really not worth their time though.

no, but a company has more levers than just small claims court - such as banning you from doing business with them, and removing all existing relationships.

Google, for example, could ban you off gmail, remove your storage in gdrive, and take away all of your youtube videos.

A big enough company with your data/process/utility that you must rely on and is locked in, would have enormous leverage over you that a small claims court won't have.

Google can do that to you, they can’t do that to a billion people without serious repercussions on their business.

This is why they don’t delete Google accounts of everyone using an add blocker for example.

no, they cannot do it to all their customers, but they dont need to. The threat of having it done to you makes you compliant. It's why consumer laws need to exist, and need to have teeth.

The threat of being kicked off of Google isn’t enough to make me or likely billions of other people to stop using an add blocker on the web.

The only time they actually push people on that issue is with YouTube due to their very strong market position.

This is true, but when there's only a couple options in town you have to assess if you're going to need to use that service in the future. That said, I find it a bit strange that it's legal to retaliate for making use of a right afforded to you by law. It would be like taking them to small claims court, winning, and being banned as a result. (Now that I wrote that I'm wondering if it's a thing that happens.)

It might actually be a good thing to get banned. Possibly it's in your interest not to continue to do business with companies like this, but on any given evening you might abandon your long term interest for the sake of short term convenience and use the bad car ride service.

Just get a new account?

The $3 often makes the difference between someone that should not be allowed to have a drivers license, and a someone that's been driving high-end limos for years.

For example, I once had a driver that heard regenerative breaking was good for fuel economy, so decided to cycle their busted prius between 60mpg and 70mph every few seconds on the freeway. I was carsick for 2 hours after that ride. Another time, I had an angry line of people tapping the windows and politely giving the driver some unsolicited advice. (The mob was right; I mostly just tried to hide my face.)

So, the $3 is a big problem, but has nothing to do with money.

> $3 isn't this kind of a small problem?

You're right -- it's surprising Lyft wouldn't just give back $3 (such a small amount!) to keep a customer.

this is so rampant but they know they have a captive market (in many places, only uber or lyft are an option) so they abuse their position

I've had good experiences with Uber. I know others don't, but I have. I used to use Lyft but they treated me like shit so now I don't. If Uber starts treating me like shit I'm going back to taxis. If taxis treat me like shit I'll take the bus, walk, buy a car, or any of the dozens of other ways to get around, even if impractical. The market is only captive because people are lazy and weak willed.

> $3 isn't this kind of a small problem?

Its the principle, not the size of the cost. If a company with good customer service accidentally overcharged me $200 but I could call someone and have it fixed easily that would set me off far less than a company that screwed me out of $1 who has shit-tier dark pattern customer service.

Worth knowing that Uber bought Dantaxi, Denmark's largest Taxi company a couple of weeks ago. The Uber app will tap in to Dantaxi driver pool. https://www.uber.com/en-DK/newsroom/dantaxi/

I wonder if strong worker unions and regulations forced Uber to buy an existing company rather than starting their own presence.

It's the point. I've noticed the same, in Australia on Uber, and have stopped bothering asking for the 'comfort' vehicle.

It's the same car. They just charge you $3 more for thinking you're going to get something nicer. You're not.

$3 sure but you're already paying $XX for the service in the first place.