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> Not every business needs to become a unicorn.

Honestly, I find this whole startup mentality, where you only build a company so that you might later sell it off to some megacorp, very strange and off-putting. It essentially means you didn't care about your product and your users in the first place.



Just been reading about them - they haven’t taken venture funding - so I expect they don’t have the same pressure to 10X every 6 months.

From their site:

Kagi was bootstrapped from 2018 to 2023 with ~$3M initial funding from the founder. In 2023, Kagi raised $670K from Kagi users in its first external fundraise, followed by $1.88M raised in 2024, again from our users, bringing the number of users-investors to 93.

Kagi launched in June 2022 and we maintain a public page tracking real-time Kagi growth and usage statistics at kagi.com/stats.

In early 2024, Kagi became a Public Benefit Corporation (PBC).


This sounds great! I'm sceptical of every company that takes VC money, so it's great to see that they didn't.


Well they did, they took venture funding from their users.


That's not what most people understand as "VC money" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venture_capital).


What "most people" (Arch Linux enthusiasts I presume) think about it has no influence on the contracts between Kagi and their investors, and the laws the parties have to abide to.


When I used the term "VC money" I obviously meant VC firms. It's not about the laws, it's about the underlying motivations.


And how do you suppose that Kagi receives the money invested by their users? If you guessed by function of a VC firm, then you guessed right.

These are legal and contractual proceedings, with strict definitions of terms by law, not by popular opinion in the hacker community.

"Underlying motivations" of the investors is never a legal factor in any kind of investment deal. That's not something that can be accounted for by any kind of contract.


> If you guessed by function of a VC firm, then you guessed right.

I would not have guessed that. Why would I need a VC firm to invest a few thousand dollars into a company?


Because Kagi is not a publicly traded company, where anybody can invest.

They raised money in the form of SAFE notes, in which case a venture capital firm is created (you can also call it a legal entity or a juridical person) and each investor owns a part of that firm in proportion to the money they invest. That firm in turn will have a contract with the startup company which details and regulates how the invested funds in the future can be transformed to actual shares.


Thanks for the insight. But that's not how most people understand the term "VC money". So while you might be technically right, you are still (intentionally?) missing the point.


We're talking about behavior, not legal factors. Just because something is legally equivalent does not mean it is the same in all other aspects.


That’s not venture funding.

Key difference: They didn’t take any funding from anyone whose values are misaligned with their own


Venture funding is a financial and legal term with a defined meaning. Unfortunately the real world does not care whatever idea the hacker "community" has regarding what the words mean.


Actually the real world does care. Words have meanings in the context that they're spoken, and often times whether you want to or not, dictionaries have to update their meanings because they changed over time.


A dictionary has no bearing on the law and what is defined in a business contract. That would be like me claiming that I own a share of Apple Inc because I purchased an Apple in the supermarket. Sure, maybe I can get the entire HN comment section to agree with me, but that doesn't change reality.


Why would investors care about your product or users? They care about returns.

If you can bootstrap it yourself then there's no need to do this, but those that bring in investors will need an exit.


The conclusion still stands: “It essentially means you didn't care about your product and your users in the first place.”


I don't disagree with your overall sentiment, but the last line feels off. Investment profile needs to be matched with returns, but they don't all need to be 5 year mega exits, and they don't need the same companies to be racheted up in round after round of fund-led growth. This is why we don't build companies that will last 100+ years anymore


Investors in “lifestyle businesses” and bootstrapped ones exist.

You just never hear about them because they’re small and like the businesses they invest in, they’re satisfied with moderate returns.


Because if they do not care about the product or users their returns will be sub-optimal?


Some (non-VC) investors are personally invested in the product and want it to succeed/improve.


Why would investors care about your product or users? They care about returns.

You can do two, or even all three of those things. Human beings are not boolean greed machines.

The HN bubble likes to reduce everything to a numbers game. Real life isn't like that, as demonstrated by the many tens of thousands of companies that aren't run like a dystopian Silicon Valley comic book.




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