Why do you think I’m in a bubble? What evidence do you have that it’s not you wallowing? I’ve read some of the research that tries to tease apart credentialism from skills, read maybe a dozen papers about it. And I’ve looked at the data on pay gap on average across the US for degree holders vs non degree holders. Have you?
BTW, your other reply does almost nothing to address either my comments nor @sarchertech’s. You’re arguing a straw man, asserting that it’s possible for people to learn on their own, which neither of us has disgreed with. The facts are that very few people actually do it without a guided curriculum, and conversely that people who choose the guided curriculum often do learn things they wouldn’t have learned otherwise.
> Lets go back to my original point, related to spending 3-4 years studying CS. You and the other guy that responded are getting way off topic and putting words in my mouth.
> What I didn't say is that computer science knowledge is useless. So lets not get distracted by this imaginary point.
> Most of the unrelated degree for CS work is useless.
I think your in a bubble because it sounds like your surprised by people finding their time in college to be mostly useless. This isn't about the degree it self being something that is used to gatekeep and lead to higher salaries. Just that your not really spending 4 years studying CS, your wasting time with gen eds.
Go ask some 30 year old + people about their college and experience with gen eds.
It sounds like you wasted your time. I didn’t waste mine, and @sarchertech didn’t waste theirs.
I have asked some 30 year olds, in addition to reading quite a bit of research on this topic. I’m not at all surprised some people find their time in college to be mostly useless. Some people are lazy and contrarian and see school as authoritarian and useless from the start, and so they don’t pay attention and getting nothing out of it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy - something they did to themselves because of their attitude. Maybe you’re one of those people. That reflects on their attitude and choices and not on school in general, since it’s a fact that many other people find their time in college valuable, many people take advantage of the time and seek out classes that teach them things they want to learn. My school had lots of choices for classes that fill gen ed requirements, and I chose my gen eds wisely.
The research that has statistically sampled all 30 year olds found that on the whole they are learning things and taking skills away from their university experience. It would be totally weird if they weren’t. Your point makes very little sense that people would spend 4 years of their lives learning and end up not learning. I think @sarchertech is right that you’re projecting your own experience on everyone else, making the incorrect assumption that because you didn’t learn much then nobody did.
> This isn’t about the degree it self being something that is used to gatekeep and lead to higher salaries
Yes it absolutely is. A degree that gets you into a 2x better paying job has utility, and is not useless, even if you waste your time and learn nothing.
Nothing you’ve said yet addresses the point that even though people could learn on their own everything that college teaches, we have loads of evidence that it just doesn’t happen very often.
BTW, I think you meant “you’re”. I wouldn’t have said anything, but you did it 4 times in a row.
You said college was a “waste of time” and “useless”. If you’re not talking about the choice to go or not, and you’re not talking about the pay benefits, then what is your point?
Why do you think I’m in a bubble? What evidence do you have that it’s not you wallowing? I’ve read some of the research that tries to tease apart credentialism from skills, read maybe a dozen papers about it. And I’ve looked at the data on pay gap on average across the US for degree holders vs non degree holders. Have you?
BTW, your other reply does almost nothing to address either my comments nor @sarchertech’s. You’re arguing a straw man, asserting that it’s possible for people to learn on their own, which neither of us has disgreed with. The facts are that very few people actually do it without a guided curriculum, and conversely that people who choose the guided curriculum often do learn things they wouldn’t have learned otherwise.