> They are old enough to drive certain vehicles and old enough to buy alcohol

Hopefully not at the same time.

They would drive to and from the store. Drinking what they bought is a different matter.

It was meant to be a joke.

The legal drinking age in Finland is 18 or 20, depending on the ABV.

Where us the drinking age 16?

In Denmark anything less that 16.5% can be purchased by 16 year olds.

This is crazy. 16.5 is stronger than regular wine.

That's exactly the point. It's a middle ground ABV where there aren't a ton of products and below which are mostly fermented beverages and above which is distilled liquor.

I was talking about Germany.

In Switzerland, it is 16 for beer and wine, and 18 for spirits (or drinks that contain spirits, like "alcopops", even if they have a low ABV). I think Austria and Germany are the same.

Most US states, last I checked. Note: drinking age, not age to buy alcohol. Usually there's some rule about parental consent or only at home.

Belgium as well.

Do you remember yourself at the age of 16?

Sure.

Depends on what. I can't even trust the 40 year developers in my team at work. "Hacky if foreach loop will fix later"

Trust is a privilege that must be earned not given. Prove to me you're trustworthy and I'll give you trust.

One untrustworthy 16 year old can cause hell chaos in a group of trustworthy teenagers. I've seen it when I was a youth worker.

Trust is by far most often given and earned (or lost) post facto. In fact, that's an essential characteristic of a society.

> Depends on what. I can't even trust the 40 year developers in my team at work. "Hacky if foreach loop will fix later"

Whenever people make statements like this, I always wonder what their peers think of them. This dismissive attitude is so off-putting.

People who make statements like that are the kind of people you dread will pick up your pull request. You just know you're going to go from maybe spending an hour cleaning up some suggestions to a 3-day philosophical battle to get them to a point where they deign to accept your PR.

Not at all. If the code is decent and shows effort I have no problem. If it's sloppy it shite code.

I really don't have time to care about what my peers think of me. It's work. I don't want to communicate with them outside work. Work is just another mind space that stays at work. I am strict when it comes to code, I expect the same.

I want working maintainable code to enable me to do my job. If people dread submitting a PR because they can't write code with effort, good. I like my ships built strong not weak.

If they fix their problem, good. Trust given, more than happy to salute however time and time they've proven to me they don't.

These developers have proven to me they won't. These are developers who are those who do not fix the issuing code and will just move on to the next problem hacking it to make it work.

If you've never worked with such, then lucky. If this sting for you, time to put more effort in to your work.

> I don't want to communicate with them outside work. Work isn't a friend zone

Neither of these things was suggested or raised so this is quite a bizarre rant to go on.

Even if you care about neither of those things, what your peers think of you still matters because you must work with them.

No, they really don't. They submit their code. I submit mine. If they have a problem with mine, I'll fix what they have issues with if they are reasonable, why wouldn't I?

Where I work in enterprise your peers change daily. With my role and importance to the company implementing hacky code puts me at risk and so I will of course push back. The people I knew last months may not even work in the company.

The view of I must be a horrible person comes from the Comment OP being angry at me for having a reasonable standards to an Enterprise standard of code. "It works im done. Next please"

If their code isn't up to scratch I will tell them and reject it. The issue I have is lazy developers who implement hacks and don't actually go and fix the code.

I am being made the bad person from someone's angry hospitality. All I was saying is that lazy developers are lazy developers and that I axe their work because it's sloppy and doesn't deserve to be on show.

No. I put my view on to reject PR and they go to the next best person to approve.

Blag the senior with bullshite of: "I will fix this in the next revision, it works for now" and don't.

I'm not to engage further as you're only ever going to repeat yourself in more obnoxious ways, but I will say that if you treat people in real life the way you comment here, you will only ever be tolerated at best. Never respected and never liked.

Even the people you consider peers will abhor that you think and speak like this about people.

You don't say. The feelings mutual, your attitude is something far from desirable.

Looking at your past comments: "Perhaps self-reflection is in order", I agree. You're very hostile, angry? You should look in to that.

I wish you the best in life, I truly do, you have some growing up to do.

I don't trust them and they prove to me I can't. They don't own to their mistakes nor fix their problems.

Now your left with a code base forever with tech debt because of a hacky foreach if loop.

You're telling me you've never worked with anyone who does half arsed work? Where you need to pick up their slack? Lucky you.

Because if you can't do a proper job at least on elementary level then what do you do then when they refuse to fix their mess?

I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Is this a JavaScript complaint and they were meant to use a for..of? Are you an FP purist and think they were supposed to use map/filter?

This sounds like you have some very specific trauma around a very specific "foreach if loop", because I would personally never throw around such a specific-but-not-specific example of tech debt. Tech debt is extremely contextual.