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Interestingly, it could also be seen the other way around; it's a potential way for Google to force deployments of system updates (potentially at the request of law enforcement). With an automatic reboot, then the update can automatically be applied without user action.



This makes no sense, Android already will reboot itself after receiving an update and being inactive for a while (generally while charging it will install the update in its secondary partition, do some verification checks and reboot if there is no user interaction).


This sounds vendor-specific and not general for Android. I've never had that happen on any device but Windows and I would be very upset if it did happen.


This is default on iOS and on many Android versions.

It's often configurable, but e.g. carrier policy or local vendors can enforce it.

To have updates automatically install overnight is the maximally desirable scenario - waiting for user approval usually result in open vulnerabilities, and if you interact with a prompt you are by definition using your device and it is therefore a much worse time than while you're asleep.


> maximally desirable

On Android, my experience has been that new major versions are often unstable / involve some risk of bricking / include feature regressions (dumbing down of multi-task in Android 13 if I remember well). Waiting for a few month before installing a major update, while not optimal for security, is necessary to make sure that the most critical bugs are fixed beforehand.

Regarding applications, today there's so many applications being always updated all the time that there's no way it's good for the flash memory to constantly rewrite it every day. Plus this often leads to random application restarts while they are updated automatically. (and non-OSS applications updates can result in unwanted changes such as more ads, random changes in UI...).

It's still possible to disable automated updates on Android and I am glad that they allow it.


> Major upgrades

Major version upgrades are a different type of upgrade altogether. They are optional while the previous major is still maintained.

Minor upgrades is what should always be automatic.

> Flash wear

No, it doesn't matter.

Total write endurance (i.e., the number of bytes written the device is designed to handle under some standard load) is usually a large multiple of the chip size itself - say, 200x-400x, so e.g. 100TB of writes for a 256GB setup. A particular workload is only really meaningful to flash wear if it is in the scale of several full storage rewrites during the lifetime of the device.

The exact write endurance depends on the exact configuration (specific chip selection, allocated reserve), but even microSD cards have wear levelling these days.

Your device is going to die or be retired with a certain flash write wear, but I find it extremely unlikely that your device will die of a flash write wear. The wear endurance is dependent on the specific flash setup.

A much larger cause of wear is app caches (e.g., streaming video continously overwriting a disk cache, browsing social media). If you take pictures, those might end up written multiple times as first the original is written, then the automatically processed version, then any edits you make, then if storage saving measures is enabled maybe its deleted and a compressed version is written, if you later open the app the original is downloaded and written again, ...


> They are optional while the previous major is still maintained.

I don't think there is such a choice on Pixel phones but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. When the next major update is available the phone just asks to update to it every few days (but won't do it without user consent). I don't think there's security updates on a given phone for old major versions when a new one is available (there likely are for older phones that don't get the major update however).

Thank you for your explanations on flash wear, makes sense. Taking a low value of 13TB endurance (64GB times 200), this is still 7GB per day for five years and I don't think app updates can consume that much.


I hate overnight updates because a dialed one means I have no alarm and will be hours late for work.

And yes, this has actually happened to me at least twice.


On Android? It must be an app-specific issue because it's possible for apps to implement alarms so that they work before unlocking the device after a reboot, but I don't know the technical details behind it.

I've had that happen a few times and the alarms went off on time but they used the default alarm tune instead of the one I had selected, presumably that data was still encrypted.


Android actually have a special mode for apps that needs to work after a reboot (e.g.: while the FS encryption is still locked), and Alarms is one of the apps that uses this special mode. I don't remember how it is called though so sorry for the lack of sources, you will have to trust me on this one.

The amount of misinformation in this thread is huge though. I generally read every changelog for major Android updates and the amount of engineering going on is amazing. People just assumes that a few things doesn't work while they do.

Unless of course OP is using a custom alarm app this may be true, but then it is the app fault and not Android.

Edit: accordingly to ChatGPT the feature is the WorkManager: https://developer.android.com/topic/libraries/architecture/w.... I can't confirm this but looks correct to me after a quick look at its documentation.


I haven't had that happen on iOS, but I have woken up in the night needing my flashlight just to find my phone applying a lengthy update. I have it set to download automatically and install manually now, I believe.


I haven't had any problems in at least 7+ years, but I work in coffee and I can remember at least two instances where an Apple update made half the staff late by turning off their alarms, myself included.


What's the link between coffee and iOS?


Coffee shop workers on the morning shift wake up at 4am.


Everybody in the coffee shop had an iPhone?


I like an amber booklite, it isn't as compact but the light is better for keeping in the sleep mode. We used those as our lights to help develop our child's sleep hygiene. Cupped our hands around the light part as we puttered around.


You don't keep a real flashlight next to your bed?


I do, in my nightstand. In the event of an emergency where we’re without power, I do not want to waste my phone’s battery power by using it as a flashlight.


Why would you when you have a phone?


I think it was supposed to be a sarcastic question.


That's a weird thing to ask.


Only if there was a typo. :)


You don’t keep a real camera next to your bed? What about a two-way radio? MP3 player?


I keep all of those things next to my bed.

They all even share a unified battery charging mechanism and integrated packaging for easy portability.

I'm not sure if the idea of these pocket supercomputers will ever catch on, but it sure seems like it'd be nice.


You don't need a flashlight, the phone screen is more than bright enough late at night.


an ereader even more so


E-reader without e-ink? Might as well use a tablet. I have an attachable light thing for my e-reader as it does not omit any significant light.


Front light works fine with ink on my Kobo Elipsa (A5 size). The area means it is much brighter than my phone

I would consider an alarm clock, which has far fewer failure modes in this regard. You can even get ones with a battery backup.

These have existed for many decades.


What Android version do you use where it doesn't happen`?


Never happened on my samsung.


I've woken up to a rebooted Samsung phone.

(And it has been problematic for me at times when this happened.)


On every Android I've had, Samsung included, it's an option. I believe they're all enabled by default, but can be disabled.


Except that on most phone you can already reboot the device if you long-press some button, can't you?


You can always turn it off and on, AFAIK.


Long Press power while pressing volume down works on all Android devices I've used to date.

And that's ignoring the fact that disconnecting power, waiting a few days and then reconnecting it will inevitably let you cold boot it, too (which this would be an equivalent to - as far as I understood it)


That key combo is screenshot on android 14...


The force power of happens after something like 30s, the screenshot should be pretty much instant


long power press = force reboot

power+volume = screenshot


Your are absolutely correct. I mixed it up from playing with various Android versions in 2010-2016. The long press alone got the reboot, and the volume down + power booted into the bootloader. Hence my memory with both, as I always pressed both until the bootloader was available - but you are right, long press power is enough for hard off


They should really implement a dual user / dual password system to combat those countries.

If you enter password 1 it goes into your normal account, if you enter password 2 it goes into another user account with a burner environment where you can install a few token commonly used apps for plausible deniability.

The existence of password 2 should be optional and you should not be able to tell if the system has one or two passwords configured.


> install a few token commonly used apps for plausible deniability

It's gonna be seen as pretty implausible when you don't have constant & recent messages with your loved ones in there.


I dunno, my elderly and non-tech-savvy in-laws travelled to the US (from Canada) last week and wiped their phones of social media apps and stored messages before crossing the border based on media reports around the US CBP’s handling of border crossers’ devices, so I’d say an empty phone is pretty plausible for anyone in that situation.


You can either use: separate user accounts (needs context switching) or a new private space feature. Private space was introduced with Android 15 and can hide its existence (from the launcher).


it would be better for plausible deniability if it just had all your apps minus a few hidden ones, but keeping the rest with all their data.


Some alternate ROMs already have this, duress mode I think it's called


It's already trivial to reboot a locked android phone


When it's sitting in a locked steel drawer, with no connectivity, and no way to touch it?


At least on iOS an update requires an explicit unlock, is this not the case on Android?

There could be secret pathways but I don’t know them.


When Apple does it: "Brilliant! Love the security! Walled Prison!! Wooo"

When Google does it: "Google is using it to help the FBI"

(But the iphone was hacked by the FBI...)


If the user data is properly encrypted, then that still won't give access to any important information until the key is entered by the user.


I actually think this is the reason. But I think Android has an option to disable auto update?


This is the real reason




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