My honest opinion of "Japanese society works great because the whole society is formed by a unique strain of humans who lack any sense of individualism" is a pretty shallow take in my opinion, where most of the corroboration are other clueless people repeating the same basic stereotype.
The other commenter mentions the huge impact of Japanese pop culture and technical innovation, which somehow isn't legitimate proof of individual expression, but if you need academic citations then here's some from even back in the '90s arguing that Japan is not less individualistic than the West, and even arguably is less collectivistic depending on how you measure that. [1][2]
Here's an example purely from a Japanese stereotype that shows a type of individuality that people could generally understand (just in a form what westerners tend to look down on)—the concept of an otaku [3], or in other words, someone who follows some interest much further than anyone thinks is socially "normal" or "reasonable." And yet these people are generally accepted by Japanese society, if not empowered in the form of a respected "craft" culture, in a way that would just make you a total loser in most of the West.
My personal experience actually living in Japan for 7 years now, matches a different common trope in Japanese culture, wherein what people outwardly say to people they don't trust is completely different than what they actually believe and say to people they do trust (honne/tatemae [4]).
And unfortunately for the Westerners parroting these stereotypes, they firmly fall into only hearing the tatemae.
To the original thread, there are plenty of rational, direct reasons for why Japanese cities can be clean and orderly, that aren't that "Everyone in Japan is some kind of brainless drone," but unfortunately people who justify things based on that excuse will never learn what those things are, doomed to make the same mistakes... very drone-like, in my view.
> My honest opinion of "Japanese society works great because the whole society is formed by a unique strain of humans who lack any sense of individualism" is a pretty shallow take in my opinion, where most of the corroboration are other clueless people repeating the same basic stereotype.
It's not just a stereotype though, but a long held opinion and observation, literally the subject of study and research. To an extent more than other countries, this claim is objectively true - or at least I would have said that before seeing your links which reveal the idea to be one that is debated somewhat.
> The other commenter mentions the huge impact of Japanese pop culture and technical innovation, which somehow isn't legitimate proof of individual expression,
I was never denying individual expression can exist, but that doesn't mean most of society can't still be less individualistic than western countries.
Everything you have written is interesting, and I don't doubt that the stereotype can be exaggerated, over-repeated and misused, but it is a long-held observation about Japanese culture that has been intensely observed and studied. For that reason I think it is wrong to just dismiss it as an incorrect stereotype.
The other commenter mentions the huge impact of Japanese pop culture and technical innovation, which somehow isn't legitimate proof of individual expression, but if you need academic citations then here's some from even back in the '90s arguing that Japan is not less individualistic than the West, and even arguably is less collectivistic depending on how you measure that. [1][2]
Here's an example purely from a Japanese stereotype that shows a type of individuality that people could generally understand (just in a form what westerners tend to look down on)—the concept of an otaku [3], or in other words, someone who follows some interest much further than anyone thinks is socially "normal" or "reasonable." And yet these people are generally accepted by Japanese society, if not empowered in the form of a respected "craft" culture, in a way that would just make you a total loser in most of the West.
My personal experience actually living in Japan for 7 years now, matches a different common trope in Japanese culture, wherein what people outwardly say to people they don't trust is completely different than what they actually believe and say to people they do trust (honne/tatemae [4]).
And unfortunately for the Westerners parroting these stereotypes, they firmly fall into only hearing the tatemae.
To the original thread, there are plenty of rational, direct reasons for why Japanese cities can be clean and orderly, that aren't that "Everyone in Japan is some kind of brainless drone," but unfortunately people who justify things based on that excuse will never learn what those things are, doomed to make the same mistakes... very drone-like, in my view.
[1] https://sci-hub.ru/10.1111/1467-839X.00043 (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-839X.00043)
[2] https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&d... e5f
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae