As a long-time member of the bald brotherhood, I've got mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it's fascinating to see science finally fighting back against my hairline's slow but inevitable retreat. On the other, I've spent years perfecting the clean shave, embracing the low-maintenance lifestyle and enjoying the money saved on fancy shampoos. Not sure I'm ready to give all that up just yet.
I'm with you on that. My hairline started receding when I was about 20 years old (for my dad it was even earlier), and at 27 I gave up after Rogaine, finasteride, dutasteride, etc. all failed, and started shaving it all off. That was more than 15 years ago, and I really haven't minded not having to ever pay for a haircut, or deal with washing or drying my hair (or paying for shampoo), or having a bad hair day, or just dealing with bed hair and cowlicks and everything in the morning. I'm lucky, though, that I have a pretty symmetrical, normal-shaped head with no weird lumps or anything.
But every now and then I do miss having hair. If this drug does bear fruit (er, hair), I suppose I could give it a go, but (assuming it works) still go back to shaving if I get tired of it. I guess it would just be nice to have the option!
(It's also a little funny/wild to me that most of my friends, as well as my wife, have never seen me with hair.)
Yeah, having the option is definitely an interesting thought... You made me think... Out of my surroundings, only my parents have seen me with hair in person...
Looks like they might be close to a generally available treatment. It says they've had successful human trials and they are expanding them
Also:
> the scientists have co-founded a medical development company called Pelage Pharmaceuticals. Backed by Google Ventures, last year the company raised $16.4 million in funding to shepherd further trials and win official clearances
I gave finasteride (and dutasteride) a try in my 20s. It didn't work, but I'm lucky that I didn't end up suffering any of those side effects you mention. I was definitely reckless in taking it without really considering the negative possibilities.
I had a hair transplant. Watched soap operas on a bed for 5 hours while they worked on me, and now I have hair like 80s Richard Dean Anderson. (Was nearly Patrick Stewart before.)
Until this treatment is ready I recommend what I did. :)
When I was 16 I had full afro. When I was 20 I had like one tenth of an afro, and since then, I just shave my head. Looks good actually, the only problem is that shaving can be annoying.
I don't remember exactly, but I'd guess $5k back then.. I remember I used reddit to get a recommendation for a doctor. But then there was another forum and I validated him there, before I decided.
The amount of spam it will generate is going to be just as nuts. Generic PP405, get it here! Herbal PP405, get your herbal PP405. PP406 because that is PP405+1 and thus better.
Same. I took finasteride (propecia) for a week and it caused ED for 60 days in my early 20s when libido was usually strong. Would not recommend finasteride. Hair did grow back thick, but it was not worth it. Scariest 60 days of my life. Also felt strange because I think it reduces testosterone; I felt more easily upset and different to usual. Difficult to describe and I'm no expert. I was suddenly very happy to be bald, as the finasteride alternative was far worse and a scary experience.
The funny thing is, the same happened for me. I could only get it up with tadalafil.
Yet half a year later I decided to take the deal with the devil: What good is my libido if I can't get hookups anymore due to hair loss? I'd rather keep my hair and lose my libido. And so I went on finasteride again. The most feared and vilified medication in existence. I just took the finasteride and swallowed lots of tadalafil every day and things just worked that way.
Half a year ago I decided to switch to dutasteride because I felt like I was slowly losing ground again. I still couldn't get it up without my penis pills and was always nervous about timing them correctly to not be embarrassed during sex. But then I ended up in a relationship which kind of reduced this stress. If I can't get it up, I can't get it up and I don't care. There are other ways to satisfy my partner.
And guess what: My penis actually works and I can have sex -any time I do not plan it. What I want to say is: I read all this nightmare fuel about fin and dut and suffered from severe nocebo.
People worrying about hair loss are neurotic. Those that take fin or dut after reading all their scary side effects must be super neurotic. We are easy prey to the nocebo effect and playing mind games with ourselves.
I think it's a bit uncharitable to label people who are losing a physical feature they like as "neurotic". I agree it's not the end of the world (been shaving my head bald for 15+ years now and mostly like it better this way), but c'mon, just because you've made peace with your hair loss, it doesn't mean people who haven't are mentally defective.
> Those that take fin or dut after reading all their scary side effects must be super neurotic.
I don't think "neurotic" means what you think it means. I'd probably say "reckless".
I tried fin and dut in my 20s, and even though I was lucky and never saw those side effects, I do regret taking something like that without doing my homework first.
It seems what would be best is something topical that did not "go systemic," which blocked androgen receptors from receiving DHT.
I have been tiptoeing around this topic because, while I desperately need testosterone supplementation (my levels have never been high and they're now in the toilet), my situation is made more complex by having a metabolic disorder wherein I must avoid the estrogens (and since testosterone is partially metabolized to estradiol, I would need an aromatase inhibitor) and one of the few attractive features I have is a head full of thick wavy/curly hair, nice enough that it had been requested I grow it out and donate it for wigs. I am hesitant to gamble with one of my scarce obvious assets.
So, yes, I definitely want to find a counterbalance that would not kill the libido (I have almost always lacked) I would like to, uh, relaunch more successfully.
5ari like fin and dut inhibit the conversion of testosterone to DHT, meaning you have more testosterone. The more testosterone you have, the more estrogen you have, because testosterone is aromatised to estrogen.
Estrogen causes breast tissue to grow. Some men naturally almost have enough estrogen to cause them breast growth, either due to being an estrogen super-responder or already having a high estrogen level.
If they increase their estrogen level just a bit they will grow breast tissue.
I just tried this in the last few weeks after oral minoxidil didn't do anything noteworthy; I was on it for only a week before I started having these bizarre and extremely vivid/realistic dreams.
I'd never read about that as a side effect so at first I didn't connect the dots, but it was almost daily. Stopped after I stopped taking it - I looked it up out of interest and it's a rare side effect. I wasn't keen on it because it was a neurological side effect.
The dreams themselves didn't bother me but I also found myself more tired than usual, and I'm not overly bothered about my hair so dropped it. Others will probably tell you about the more common side effects, but wanted to drop this one in as it's not often mentioned!
Oral low-dose minoxidil doesn't seem to have much in the way of side effects once you get used to it. It even can be mildly cardio protective. Very rare side effects include pericarditis that goes away if minoxidil is discounted.
From what I've read finasteride can cause general psychological adverse events, including suicidal ideation[1], in mostly younger people. Heard someone saying their suicidal thoughts began when taking it and stopped when not, leading them to find more info about it.
Also loss of libido, erectile dysfunction. It's a gas. Imagine being 60 years old, working out, doing Botox, taking finasteride, looking great, attracting glances from women 20 years younger. Can't get it up and keep thinking about killing oneself.
Other opinion here: Women really find hair attractive, and without it you will have harder time dating. Lot of bald man compensate this somehow (career,gym, etc.).
Assuming that's true... well, if you're just looking to meet random women for hookups and flings, sure, ok. But I don't think I'd want to be in a relationship with someone who wouldn't date me because I shave my head bald.
You slightly moved the goalpost here: I said women find hair attractive. That is not the same as saying women will not enter a relationship. I know this is a hot take and unpopular, but women historically have most of the time (and still do it today - albeit probably not to the same amount) entered relationships with men they don't find attractive.
My situation improved significantly the moment I got rid of it all. Perhaps some of that was down to a boost in self confidence, but the look suits some people far more than it does others. I wouldn't go back if there were a cure.
Confidence is not a replacement for hair, it is a requirement in the first place
My favorite term I heard from female friends is "cap-fishing" - meaning a man places a photo wearing a cap (to conceal baldness) on his first photo in a dating app.
Full chop is indeed awesome, also solves a lot of other side issues
- look dangerous so people take you more seriously
- always have a “good haircut”
- swimming / bath - no need to dry hair
- solves dandruff immediately
Just positives really
Buuut I always did feel a little bit jealous of guys with fulls set of hair.
That’s why after almost 15 years of full chop, just did “an elon musk” and got myself some implants. And honestly it has been so worth it, just from the feeling you get to run fingers through your hair.
Tried both finasteride and dutasteride in my 20s, and neither one did anything for me. Looking back on it, I'm lucky I didn't end up with permanent libido issues or erectile dysfunction.
I am not sure that makes sense, historically people were marrying and having children much younger. I am talking about under 20 years of age. As such I don't think it would have much impact on mate selection as it was done when they were younger and had more "follicle vibrancy".
It usually sets in past your prime years though. Maybe it was an advantage on a societal level to make men less attractive in middle age compared to young men.
Evolution only “cares” (it doesn’t care; you know what I mean) about attractiveness during the time the male is able to procreate. Which is, <= 30 years. After that, the human animal is dead of sickness, malnutrition or a fight. The human person lives way longer thanks to modern medicine and tech. Evolution might “cares” about the male sticking around defending/teaching the family/tribe until he dies. He doesn’t need to be attractive by that point.
In the before times there were more things that could kill you early, but many people still lived into old age, e.g. the Roman Emperor Augustus (born in 63 BC) lived to the age of 75, and not all old men get ED.
The human animal is the one the evolution cares about. It’s the one that lives in caves, hunts by exhausting its prey and uses only rudimentary tools. Ausgustus is far removed from that.
I think it depends a lot on factors like head size/shape, proportionality to the rest of the body, etc. Some guys look amazing bald, but having been almost bald (very close cut) I find it quite awkward looking on myself.
Men care because women care. I don't think it's that far-fetched that women prefer men with hair, and, as someone who had hair, then didn't, and now does again, I can definitely confirm it.
Women are free with their opinions on men's looks. They want to see height, chest hair, facial hair... but they seem pretty consistent in stating that they don't really care about baldness.
Are you getting confused between individuals and species here, or something? It's not harmful to the species for mate selection to produce better offspring. Peacocks exist, for example.
The more likely explanation is something like, higher temperatures impair cognitive function and older men were more likely to be in the village conducting business around the fire or in the presence of indoor heating than freezing their butts off in the wilderness as the younger men did, so they evolved to start having less insulation on their heads after they leave adolescence.
"Nature did this for no reason" is in general not the default assumption. It's not that it can never happen, but rather that as soon as there are two phenotypes, evolution is going to start selecting for one of them over the other in any given environment unless the difference has zero effect on evolutionary fitness, which is unusual.
When he graduated college and started working in finance, he found that the baldness was a major advantage, making him look older and therefore letting him avoid the stereotype that young people are immature / unreliable / ignorant / untrustworthy.
For a group selection argument, you'd need to explain what maintains strong reproductive barriers between the groups. That approach is doomed to failure for baldness, which has already spread to every major group and therefore couldn't be explained by between-group differences anyway.
Nuclear fusion, plastic-eating bacteria, male pattern baldness: all are pressing problems of our times whose solutions are always 20 years away. FWIW, I've come to terms with the last.
It's always disappointing when the subject of baldness comes up. It's an unpleasant issue that affects men, and nobody takes it particularly seriously. The article (from the university that developed this even) use it as a place to make bad jokes about LA traffic.
Also kind of not great to see people in this thread with very over-confident but incorrect advice (just use oral finasteride - not saying it can't help but it has side effects and isn't a cure-all).
Believe me, before I struggled with it, I had all the same comments, like just cut it off etc. But you don't really ever know how something will affect you until it happens.
If there are men, and it is mostly men, who are struggling with this in this thread I know it can really suck. I hope this treatment works and helps.
> Believe me, before I struggled with it, I had all the same comments, like just cut it off etc. But you don't really ever know how something will affect you until it happens. If there are men, and it is mostly men, who are struggling with this in this thread I know it can really suck.
Why is baldness a problem for you? Why are you "struggling with it"?
I'd say baldness is not a problem, your attitude towards it is the problem. (Source: I'm bald, not a problem)
> Why are you "struggling with it"?
> your attitude towards it is the problem.
Totally agree this the best way to handle a lot of issues in your life. But that doesn't stop it from being a negative experience. If you have something that you liked about yourself and lose it, it's negative.
You can overcome that (and I feel somewhat better about it than I have previously), but doesn't somehow make it a positive experience.
It would be better if you could spend that time and mental energy on making your life better, instead of dealing with a random flaw in your genes.
I spent twenty years feeling ashamed about my very crooked teeth. I told myself that it didn't matter, that it wasn't a problem, but I was very self-conscious of it. People used to give me shit for not smiling in photos, but it was because I hated the way my teeth looked. Then in my late 30s, I finally just gave up and got braces. 18 months later, they came off, and now I love the way my teeth look. I have a huge smile in all my photos.
So yeah, accept the things that you need to in life. But it's also OK to avoid needless suffering.
is this a Americanese thing? It reads like a gross simplification of just saying "a quarter" which is quite jarring coming from a prestigious university.
Weird nit to pick. I would probably write "a quarter" as well, but "one-fourth" (or, similarly, "a fourth") sounds pretty normal and idiomatic to me.
(Also weird to label something "Americanese", given that out of the countries where English is the primary language, the US is the most populous [unless you count India, which I'm not sure I would]. I'd say that makes us, if not authoritative, at least trend-setting.)
I'm sure there is a historical reason we have "half" and "quarter" and no others but it's not my area of expertise but still, not using them when they're appropriate just seems...odd.
I disagree. This article is typical embellishment from the university that produced the research. The reality is that they're likely pre-trial stage. Even if they make it through all stages of clinical trials (historically, chances of a drug candidate doing that are 2-5%), that usually takes the better part of a decade. So the answer is "no, we're very far from curing it".
Yes. The tldr is that this is a drug that showed promise that is in the early pretrial stages. Most drugs fail before they reach the market. Even if this one doesn't, it will take a decade at least before this will be available.
Wild. How about just, you know, normalizing hair loss as a part of life? Get things to the point where women don't focus on what's on a man's head, but what's in it. Would alleviate so many problems.
What's wild is using the word "just" before a suggestion to change a culture's norms regarding looks (including self-perception).
Yes, it would make things a lot easier for everybody. If you can figure that out, please give is a hint. Until then, let's not look down on earthly solutions yet.
I can only speak for myself here, but looking in the mirror every morning as a semi-young guy and seeing your hair getting thinner and thinner is disheartening. It looks both like growing into one of those teachers that should have cut their hair years ago, and into my father. It doesn’t match the image of myself. This has nothing to do with women at all!
> where women don't focus on what's on a man's head
You can't pick what is attractive. Attraction is not decided by rational thinking, therefore it is pointless to tell women what they should find attractive. Just as it won't work to tell a man that he should find the personality, not the looks of a woman, to be attractive.
Why do you assume most men are worried by hair loss mainly because of women pressure? I and most men I've discussed this with just prefer how we look with hair and wish our hair was thicker. Otherwise I'd just shave.
I guess it's all a matter of perspective but having suffered from some very mild pain and lifelong depression and OCD, I would trade my thick ass 43-year old beautiful blond locks for some baldness if only to be free of my other ills.
My point, and I know I have no right to, but when I see all these otherwise super healthy men spend so much time worried about their (lack of) hair, it's hard to sympathize. But hey, everyone has a cross to bear I suppose.
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