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Given that Musk is actively working to undermine UE (L'Union européenne, EU in English, sorry for confusion), you'd have to be some kind of idiot to support him by buying a Tesla if you live in Europe.


Actually I think Musk is doing the opposite:

Europe has since many years suffered with high bureaucracy, strict regulations and in general low innovation levels.

Musk has been very vocal about those issues in Europe. He might be right or wrong, but questioning European levels of bureaucracy and regulations is not undermining EU, it’s going to help it.


He is wrong on many things simply from not sharing the fundamental values that makes Europeans and Americans different. Yet, even on the things he’s right on, it is not his responsibility as a foreign agent, to change. He can fix his adopted home country instead.


Better yet, he can fuck off back to South Africa.


No it's not.

Musk just finds regulations icky, because he prefers to chase profits without bothering with governments.

EU is fine without rich assholes trying to undermine it.


Spreading conspiracy theories and supporting fascists doesn't do anything to help make governance more efficient, if anything it does the opposite.


> Musk has been very vocal about those issues in Europe

How is this a problem for him? He should mind his own business as he is not European. He is a South African nazi. Why don’t you ask me instead?


Musk is actively supporting the neo-nazi Afd in Germany. Whatever his reasons are, he is now the same type of oligarch as Henry Ford was when he supported Nazi Germany.

In a recent interview with the party chair of the Afd, it was clear that he is just entirely clueless about the Germany and history in particular.

There are a lot of issues in Europe, but it is far from clear if neocon deregulation is really helping anything at all.


Is this interview worthwhile seeing to understand his state if mind? Or does it take a German to understand how clueless he is on this topic?


It's in English. I found it worthwhile to watch, for a while. Musk really wasn't too bad but the amount of nonsense coming from Alice Weidel was a bit too much for me in the end. To Musk's credit, he even corrected her a couple of times.


I think it isn't worthwhile, because the level of lies and fabrication is just insane, e.g. coming to the agreement that Hitler was a communist.


You might find it worthwhile to watch after all, because they didn't agree on that.

Note that I don't agree with the AFD at all, however what the media writes about Musk is often so far from the truth that I tend to watch or read the sources when I have a chance.


You're not wrong on the issues of the EU.

But Musk is not helping or solving any of those problems.

Even conflating the two is idiotic. Sorry.


He actively engaged now in EU politics.

Interview with the afd, using his huge platform for disrespecting politician's etc.

He is a clear threat to democracy.

The fun stopped at that point.


Free speech is a threat to democracy?


only the US lionizes "free speech" and the first amendment; Europe doesn't immediately roll over when someone invokes the bill of rights.

doubly so when their main defense of "free speech" is defending neo-nazi's in the pocket of putin


> only the US lionizes "free speech" and the first amendment;

Coincidentally, the US is also longest-standing democracy in the world.


for now. odds are good that may not be the case in four years...


You're being hugely reductive.

What we're really talking about is the richest man in the world, who owns one of the largest social media platforms in the world, using his financial and social media power to directly influence politics and/or elections according to his whim, and (it seems) currently to the benefit of causes or candidates who are often right-wing, and/or extreme or anti-establishment in some way.

There's a lot to unpack there, beyond "free speech".


Yes, when someone uses it to weaponise or manipulate the population via spreading lies and misinformation.

I think the Greeks worked that one out a couple of thousand years ago or so...

Free speech does not mean there is no accountability for what you say.


EU is not the US buddy. There's no 1st amendment here, and some speech can be considered a illegal.

Case in point, I am pretty sure that certain Nazi talking points, such as Holocaust denial is illegal in Germany.


There’s illegal speech in the US as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...


Free speech can be a problem especially when fake/false information is part of it.

But let's be honest Elon musk is doing propaganda and the worst version of free speech.

You are not bothered by an oligarch buying propaganda platform? / Making himself one?


Why? Many people dislike the European Union(myself included). Some of us believe it's an anti-democratic organization that should be dismantled. It hardly makes us idiots.

Additionally, not every European country is a member of the EU. I would argue Europe would be a lot better without such centralized power in the hands of a few.


To do this with a generation of peace who cannot comprehend how you can end up with a conflict in western europe in the next couple of decades does come with some level of risk. You have to have a detailed gameplan right out of the gate having gameplayed how economically and politically antagonistic your neighbors are going to be to your early moves. And if in the early days the perception is that things are getting worse than they were before (see Brexit) the risk of future unrest and conflict increases I would think.


I agree.

Fundamentally, I believe in a direct, decentralised democracy with Switzerland as a good example. I believe this system of governance gives prosperity and opportunity for as many as possible, while a centralised system like the EU(or USA) gives advantage to the already powerful and well connected, with the masses only an afterthought if beneficial to the ruling elite.

I think this is obvious to any thinking, rational individual.


I'm not a fan of Musk but you're getting his intentions wrong. He's not actively trying to undermine the EU. His recent support for AFD was actually meant, misguided or not, to support Germany. And his support for Tommy Robinson in the UK was because he apparently believes freedom of speech in the UK is in danger.


Not arguing, but what is UE in this context?


Uropian Eunion


French for EU.


It is Union of Europe, more commonly "EU" in English.


L'Union européenne


Unia Europejska in Polish?


EU in other languages


Musk is a bit odd re the UK. He goes on about the Starmer and the grooming scandal but it's all a bit distorted like he's getting his info from American MAGA enthusiasts on X and doesn't seem to have spoken to many Brits. A recent poll has 71% of Brits having a negative opinion of him https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/71-of-britons-hold-negative-...




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