> The Wall Street Journal last month published an interview with Cook, in which he said he uses every Apple product every day. Soon after, The Verge's Wes Davis attempted to replicate using every Apple product in a single day. During that day, Davis said he mostly used the MX Master 3, but sometimes switched to a Magic Mouse or Magic Trackpad.
> In other words, it was Davis who said he himself used a Logitech mouse, not Cook.
The author was attempting to interpret what a day with only Apple products would be like, written in a first person style.
They mentioned using a Logitech mouse but for someone skimming the article, it can be easy to misinterpret that as a pull quote from the mentioned WSJ interview
It's probably less to do with the awkwardly placed charging port that you use maybe once a month, and more to do with the ergonomics being dogshit every time you use it.
Something like the MX Master is a lot better but a vertical mouse is better still if your wrists have seen better days.
I’ve used the Magic Mouse since its creation till earlier this year. I switched to a vertical mouse. It was hard to give up the Magic Mouse’s amazing scrolling experience and its touch surface but my wrist just couldn’t take it anymore.
The thing is, a company that likes to sell itself as having stellar product design should be held to a standard of criticism for stellar product design.
And contrary to popular opinion good design is both usable and looks good, many just skip to the looks good part and call it a day. When do users notice their mouse is empty? When they want to use it. Charging preventing use in thst case is just bad design.
But when does this happen? In the middle of work, which you can't drop for a few hours to charge mouse. And you probably wouldn't want to switch to touchpad if you bought mouse in the first place. So user suspends notification and intends to charge mouse at the end of the day, and then forgets about it.
The only reason for this port placement is a marketing and anti-consumer one - to prevent people using mouse permanently plugged in.
>The only reason for this port placement is a marketing and anti-consumer one - to prevent people using mouse permanently plugged in.
I think you are reading way too much into this. That is likely not the reason.
The previous iteration of the Magic Mouse, which is actually quite old and created in the Steve Jobs era, was basically identical to the current one, but took AA batteries and had a door in the same spot underneath the mouse. When they decided to make the thing rechargeable, that was likely the easiest/least costly/most obvious spot to put the new battery and charging apparatus without changing any other parts of the mouse. You can bet accessories division is not the most resourced/staffed part of hardware engineering at Apple, so they would have to make do with whatever they are given. The calculus must have been "is this going to cause an issue for the user?" and as the charging is not frequent they decided to go with it. I am fairly confident their product has decent/good customer satisfaction rating, as is, and they have not received many complaints from the real user in this long time, just loud people in the news/social media. If not, it likely would have been fixed by now.
As a former student of product design I can assure you that someone in that meeting sold a "they cannot leave it plugged in" as an advantage. Granted, maybe it wasn't the only advantage, e.g. lower production costs, easier to reach the target IP rating or something, but it definitly was discussed about.
It would be even wilder if it wasn't, since this is a decision that is so different from what the rest of the market is doing. That would suggest a significant level of neglect in their product planning department.
But on the other hand if any comapny could get away with such neglect it would be them. The curious thing is that Apple has such a reputation for good design that people will defend things they would laugh out of the room if e.g. Microsoft did the exact same thing with a slightly less sleek styling. When they defend the following sentence you know they have become the ultimate consumer: You're holding it wrong.
Ergonomics become more important as you age. I'm afraid all the multitouch gestures in the world won't fix RSI, especially not a Type 2 like Carpal Tunnel. Can't speak for you, but using my computer comfortably is a critical part of my job.
To make it even less of an issue, I'm sure Tim Cook enough money to just buy two of them and keep the other one charging at all times. What I don't know, is if Tim Cook is one of those people that needs to have things plugged in all the time even if they don't need to.
The psychological aspect that's not discussed about the mouse port on the bottom is that some people get anxious about a battery running down. So even if it's a once a month, and just do it when it tells you to and take a 15 minute break, the problem with the port on the bottom is that there's a battery that will eventually run out and psychologically, not being able to charge it while using it just feels wrong, no matter how much that's not a real problem. It's an emotion and marketing is all about playing on people's emotions. BMW doesn't sell a car with a V10 that makes 577 horsepower, they sell the ultimate driving machine. Apple knows this better than most consumer products companies so it's just weird for them to stick to their butterfly keyboards, er, guns like that.
I'm not sure I'm following, you're saying Apple should cater their Bluetooth wireless mouse to people who are too anxious about batteries to use it wirelessly?
You realise this is extremely dependent on the individual's use right? I was provided such a mouse at my workplace and had to charge it every month. The first time i forgot to charge it overnight i cursed myself. The second time, I demanded another mouse.
+1 to Cook’s choice of the MX Master series. I switched to that family of mice back when RSI first started showing up in high school / early college. It has been consistently fantastic for the past .. err .. 18 years.
Whenever I kill one of these, I just buy the new latest version. Think I’m on mouse 5 or 6. At times I’ve had multiple – one for office, one for home.
Can anyone actually confirm what is claimed in this article: That in a recent interview in The Wall Street Journal Cook says he uses the Logitech MX Master 3.
In the interview with the Wall Street Journal [1] there's no mention of a Logitech mouse. The Verge has a seemingly satirical response [2] which contains:
"I use an old iMac G4 as a third monitor just because. I mostly use a Logitech MX Master 3 but sometimes switch to a Magic Mouse or Magic Trackpad for funsies."
which is attributed to the Verge author but not Cook. Nevertheless this is what is attributed to Cook in the parent article.
I just bought a Mac Mini for use as a family computer, and a Magic Mouse to go along with it. Why? Because for a computer sitting out in the open in my living room, aesthetics are actually important to me. It’s also being used by people with different hand sizes, and my MX Master is too big for my kids’ hands. And finally, it’s easier to clean than a mouse made with softer materials and lots of different crevices for wheels and buttons.
I’ll also add that horizontal scrolling works really well on the Magic Mouse - comparable to a track pad. My MX Master has a horizontal scrolling wheel, but it is much harder to use due to its design and placement. This may or may not be a big deal depending on which apps you regularly use.
I think for a mouse that you plan to use all day long for work, it’s worth getting something with better ergonomics. But for most people, the Magic Mouse is fine.
I'm pretty critical of my tech's ability to fulfill me exact needs, and the Magic Mouse is fine 98% of the time. The remaining 2% are when I want to play a video game that leverages multiple mouse buttons and a discrete scroll.
Anyone who's played more than five minutes of Unreal Tournament knows full well how essential it is to have distinct physical inputs for primary and secondary fire.
And some of the more outside-the-box RTS input schemes expect me to left-click while holding down the right mouse button.
It may seem like the default Mac mouse is a decades-old grudge against the context menu. But I can understand Apple's motivation in the 80s— ideally, mice shouldn't require more than one button, and if it isn't required, why put the secondary one on a default mouse to begin with?— and in the 90s— when Apple's mere existence became a pure act of defiance. But nowadays, the message they send is, "We're big and successful enough to never have to compromise our the most fundamental ingredient, and if you want more, buy an alternative".
This article of course starts with yipping about the charging port position because it sells to the low-info crowd. I am confident that the charging port has positively nothing to do with Cook's selection (and kudos to him and the org for being willing to admit something like this).
The Magic Mouse is a great general purpose mouse. Browsing websites, reading News, even coding where the mouse is kind of ancillary, with the gestures being a great affordance.
It is, however, terrible if you're doing pixel precise work: For that I use a standard gaming mouse where I have extra buttons mapped to things like control center. With the Magic Mouse you're just constantly accidentally doing gestures and doing micro movements. Not sure why that is, but I find it useless for precise usage, at least in my experience. And FWIW, it's also horrendous in Remote Desktop sessions.
And I imagine that for some hand sizes and health conditions it's a bad match. I have small hands and find it super ergonomic, but I imagine larger hands might not finding it ideal.
Trying the MX master 2 in a random Japanese computer store was what finally made me realise that my prefence for the Microsoft Intellimouse wasn't big or clever, and that mice genuinely have improved in the last twenty years. I'm not surprised to find Apple fans would use it.
I too have a logitech MX master 3S mouse and it's fantastic across Windows, Linux and Mac.
The only downside of it, is that it needs a larger battery for the price. I think you can hack it and put a larger one in there if you like, but still, the thing costs $99 which is kind of a lot for a mouse.
Does this mouse forego the rubber finish which invariably goes icky after a few years?
Every non-bottom of the range Logitech mouse I've ever had has suffered this problem. After a few years the "rubber" parts of the exterior of the mouse just become icky, like they gradually absorb your body oils and slowly dissolve. I'd be much happier if they just had hard plastic, like the bottom of the range. In fact, on my longest used Logitech (dual optical from early 2000s), I eventually ripped off the rubber and it was great to use for years after until eventually the mouse wheel packed up.
Subsequently my recent mice have been the $5 M90 which doesn't have any rubber finish. I don't suffer any kind RSI so far (despite being over 40 now), but from an ergonomics perspective I wouldn't mind something better.
That's because "soft touch" finishes are usually basically incompletely polymerized plastic painted on the body instead of more premium materials like rubber or silicone, and yes, they will break down over time. You can fix it using isopropyl alcohol and a scotch-brite or similar sponge to scrape it off, but better not to have it in the first place.
The first MX Master I got sometime in 16 lasted almost 6-7 years. I don’t mind spending that if my hand will be ergonomically stable for long term use. I recently upgraded to the new MX Master 3? And even got myself the Mx keyboard. Loving it!
The first MX Master 3S I had lasted a bit over 3 years. The battery would be constantly needing to be refreshed about once a week. It kinda got annoying.
I still have it with the intentions of hacking it and replacing the battery for a secondary mouse for use in the garage, but ... I'm trying to get other things done first.
I'd love to know the inside story about why this hasn't been fixed yet, after so many years of a clearly deficient design. Wasn't there an Apple mouse at one point that did have a connector at the head of the mouse, so you could just use it as a wired mouse while charging? I vaguely recall the charging port on the bottom was blamed on Jony Ive (no idea if that's reasonable) wanting a certain aesthetic, but IIRC the small port on the head of the mouse was hardly noticeable. It wasn't as intrusive as, say, the iPhone notch, which has to be looked at whenever you use the phone.
I'm reminded of the situation where General Motors kept thin, uncomfortable metal keys decades after other manufactures released more ergonomic keys, or even remote key fobs.
If you look at the front edge of the Magic Mouse, you will see that it is very thin. The top service some down to just a few millimeters above the desk surface. There isn’t room for a port there. Apple would have to redesign the mouse and they clearly don’t want to do that.
If you talk to people who use the Magic Mouse, they will mostly tell you that it is a non-issue. The mouse goes months on a charge and charges quickly. Just plug it in and grab a cup of coffee.
It doesn’t need a fix, the thing goes weeks between charges and you can charge enough for several hours of use in like 10 minutes, from a totally dead battery. It’s a little silly but not an actual problem. There are a bunch of other reasons to prefer a different mouse, mostly having to do with ergonomic preferences or needs for real buttons and a physical scroll wheel (it’s a terrible mouse for gaming, for instance).
I think it does. I've been interrupted more than once mid-flow while programming to recharge the battery. Or say, you're in the middle of a presentation. There are lots of mission-critical uses, which can't easily tolerate an interruption. You can't stop to recharge, and it's silly to compulsively check the battery, or carry multiple mice to avoid that situation.
When the system was new, there was a reasonable warning ahead of time on the battery level, but now the warning is not sufficient for a work around, and the mouse much be charged within a minute or two.
People are just using it wrong, it’s the only good mouse for macOS. The memes and the hate is baseless, you are not supposed to lay your hand over the mouse but move it around by gently holding by the sides and utilize the touch surfaces for Mac gestures with your fingers. Then you can just rest your hands on the table, which makes it very ergonomic.
My guess is that Tim Cook can’t use it the right way because he is likely using a lot of Microsoft Excel, which is made for the Windows UI paradigm.
I don’t know if Number is utilizing the Mac gestures, if not it’s on them.
However the entire macOS UI is heavily using swipe gestures, which is only possible with touch surfaces. That’s also why touchpads work great on Mac.
I can’t use anything other than Safari and Touchpad or Magic Mouse because I too often use the swipe slightly back to reveal the previous page to check something that I need on the current page.
If my Magic Mouse breaks down, I’m immediately getting a new one.
All the complaints I’ve seen are from people laying their entire hands on the mouse and expecting to rest their hands on top of it. This is the wrong way, IMHO.
I added a bit more detail to the original comment.
Besides the magic mouse being a terrible mouse (the usage instructions you describe don't actually work, I used it for a few months and got awful cramps, and swiping a mouse is not ergonomic at all), the Master MX 3s is amazing to use on macOS. The thumb button allows to replicate the touchpad gestures in a much more ergonomic way than the magic mouse.
See, you’re rest your hands on the table with the outer edge of your pals and wrists touching the table. You hold it with your pinky/ring finger and the thumb and use the middle and index fingers for the click and the gestures when needed. It’s quite comfortable, your hands stay at the same position with those ergonomic Logitech mice.
I have been replacing most of my hardware with Apple products recently. In an effort to empathize with regular users who don’t buy a laptop to run Linux and all that.
One thing I am surprised doesn’t exist is a non Magic Mouse, with Apple branding. There is absolutely no way the average person sees the Magic Mouse and feels compelled by the gestures. It seems like a missed opportunity not to have Logitech 903 Apple Edition and make it an Apple Store exclusive.
There are more than a few terrible designs from Apple, but the Magic Mouse borders on the hilarious.
It is the epitome of bad design at Apple; style over substance at the cost of usability and practicality. Not only is it uncomfortable to use due to the high cost of "minimalism", but that charger port ... oh boy.
Minimalism doesn't mean getting rid of things, it means having the bear minimum _necessary_.
I tried repeatedly to use a "magic mouse" for work. I think if your UI only needs one mouse button and an occasionally inconsistent mouse wheel, you'd be fine. It has a long battery life, a not bad weight and works consistently in just web browsers.
Given that none of that has anything to do with my workflow usually, I don't use one anymore.
Have you tried adjusting the Mouse settings? You can certainly enable right-click.
The multitouch gestures + inertial scrolling is actually quite magical compared to a dumb fixed-offset scrollwheel, but the mouse itself is not the most ergonomic.
yeah. I'm sorry to say but "it doesn't work for me". Part of it may be that my hands are too large for the sensitivity needed. Besides, I work often enough with software that requires 3+ mouse buttons (Unix!) that any restricted or inconsistently touchy interface (literally in this case) goes.
I feel like it almost doesn't matter what mouse you use with macOS, if you also use a high end mouse on a Windows machine with pointer precision off or a Linux machine, they all feel off. Even with their acceleration off.
I pretty much exclusively use the Magic Trackpad if I dock my MacBook.
I'm super curious if anyone else is more offended that the MX Master still uses Bluetooth when it's plugged in, more than the Magic Mouse charging port location?
I use the Magic Mouse because of the gestures and, from my research, the tracking superior to the MX Master (when the dongle is not in use, with the dongle they're equivalent), I've never once cared about the charging port location, and prefer the honesty of the design placing the charging port at the bottom (e.g., having a mouse usable with an attached cable but still use Bluetooth, instead of a wired connection, is dishonest). I think I'd probably buy an MX Master's to compare it if they'd put the charging port on the bottom (although not 100% sure, needing a dongle to achieve comparable tracking is also a borderline deal breaker).
Summary of online discussions on Apple mouse design flaws
Based on the provided information, many online users have engaged in heated discussions about the design flaws of Apple's mouse, particularly in terms of the charging port location, ergonomics, and functionality. Many believe that the design of the Apple mouse is seriously flawed and not worth buying.
Charging port location issues:
●
Many users expressed strong dissatisfaction with the Apple mouse's charging port being placed at the bottom, considering this design to be extremely impractical.
●
They point out that users cannot continue to use the mouse when it needs to be charged, which causes significant inconvenience in the workflow.
●
Although some users believe that the charging frequency is not high and the charging speed is fast, others say that the battery low prompts are not timely, often leading to work interruptions.
●
Some users believe that Apple should move the charging port to the front of the mouse so that users can use it while charging.
●
However, some users point out that the front of the Magic Mouse is very thin and may not have enough space to accommodate a charging port.
Ergonomic issues:
●
Many users criticize the poor ergonomic design of the Apple mouse, arguing that prolonged use can cause wrist pain.
●
They believe that compared to other ergonomically designed mice, the Apple mouse's low profile and lack of side buttons make it difficult for users to comfortably grip and operate.
●
Some users suggest that Apple offer other ergonomic mouse options to meet the needs of different users.
Functionality issues:
●
Some users criticize the Apple mouse for its lack of a physical scroll wheel and right-click function, arguing that this limits its functionality and practicality.
●
They point out that in some cases, such as gaming or applications that require precise operation, a physical scroll wheel and right-click are essential.
●
Although the Apple mouse supports multi-touch gestures, some users find these gestures unintuitive, prone to accidental touches, and may even lead to repetitive strain injuries.
Other opinions:
●
Some users believe that the sleek design of the Apple mouse is its main selling point, which may be enough to compensate for its functional shortcomings for users who value aesthetics.
●
Other users point out that the deep integration of the Apple mouse with the macOS system can provide a smooth operating experience.
●
However, some users believe that this deep integration also limits the compatibility of the Apple mouse on other operating systems.
●
Additionally, some users believe that the price of the Apple mouse is too high and does not match its performance and functionality.
Conclusion:
While some users appreciate its sleek design and integration with the macOS system, many are dissatisfied with the Apple mouse's charging port location, ergonomics, and functionality. Many users believe that the design of the Apple mouse is flawed and not worth buying.
## Summary of online discussions on Apple mouse design flaws
Based on the provided information, many online users have engaged in heated discussions about the design flaws of Apple's mouse, particularly in terms of the charging port location, ergonomics, and functionality. Many believe that the design of the Apple mouse is seriously flawed and not worth buying.
*Charging port location issues:*
* Many users expressed strong dissatisfaction with the Apple mouse's charging port being placed at the bottom, considering this design to be extremely impractical.
* They point out that users cannot continue to use the mouse when it needs to be charged, which causes significant inconvenience in the workflow.
* Although some users believe that the charging frequency is not high and the charging speed is fast, others say that the battery low prompts are not timely, often leading to work interruptions.
* Some users believe that Apple should move the charging port to the front of the mouse so that users can use it while charging.
* However, some users point out that the front of the Magic Mouse is very thin and may not have enough space to accommodate a charging port.
*Ergonomic issues:*
* Many users criticize the poor ergonomic design of the Apple mouse, arguing that prolonged use can cause wrist pain.
* They believe that compared to other ergonomically designed mice, the Apple mouse's low profile and lack of side buttons make it difficult for users to comfortably grip and operate.
* Some users suggest that Apple offer other ergonomic mouse options to meet the needs of different users.
*Functionality issues:*
* Some users criticize the Apple mouse for its lack of a physical scroll wheel and right-click function, arguing that this limits its functionality and practicality.
* They point out that in some cases, such as gaming or applications that require precise operation, a physical scroll wheel and right-click are essential.
* Although the Apple mouse supports multi-touch gestures, some users find these gestures unintuitive, prone to accidental touches, and may even lead to repetitive strain injuries.
*Other opinions:*
* Some users believe that the sleek design of the Apple mouse is its main selling point, which may be enough to compensate for its functional shortcomings for users who value aesthetics.
* Other users point out that the deep integration of the Apple mouse with the macOS system can provide a smooth operating experience.
* However, some users believe that this deep integration also limits the compatibility of the Apple mouse on other operating systems.
* Additionally, some users believe that the price of the Apple mouse is too high and does not match its performance and functionality.
*Conclusion:*
While some users appreciate its sleek design and integration with the macOS system, many are dissatisfied with the Apple mouse's charging port location, ergonomics, and functionality. Many users believe that the design of the Apple mouse is flawed and not worth buying.
>Jesus, they bring up the stupid non-problem of the port location like that’s a reason not to use it.
It has been a huge problem for me all the bloody time.
Especially combined with the useless "battery low" prompts to recharge, which come at incovenient times (where you need to ignore them and continue working), and always too close to the damn thing running out of juice...
Wow, what a clickbaity title. The article just states that Tim Cook prefers a different mouse than Apples's own Magic Mouse. Now that might be because he finds the Magic Mouse bad. Or just that he prefers the one he is using instead for whatever reason. Actually the article even mentions he sometimes uses the Magic Mouse, so it can't be all that bad in his estimation?
Granted, some people love to hate on the Magic Mouse. Perhaps it is bad (I also prefer different mice). I am happy to discuss it. But does it really have to be framed like that? This makes me want to skip over anything that site produces, I just can't take it serious.
Worse, yes. But the title reads "so bad". I don't know if it's "so bad" and shit like that. I use a Logitech G502 wireless personally because I like the way it fits my hand. I've owned all sorts of others like the Madcatz RAT that I've liked or simpler ones that I haven't. That doesn't mean I think the MX Master is "so bad" I'd rather use the G502. Bunch of people all losing their minds over simple shit haha. Oh no, his Apple T-shirt is so bad he's wearing a Zegna shirt! It's a Sunday, my dudes.
Dogfooding has a big history in Sillicon Valley and kinds of software development culture way before blogging was a thing. Before the web was a thing too. It was a thing people explicitly referred to before it even had that name.
Take your brickbats. I don't run one now, but I used to.
All of this is irrelevant (and ad hominem) by the way.
The situation is simple: Apple doesn't make a mouse good enough for its CEO. It's as embarassing as if a Dell CEO used a Macbook.
Whether that's still fine business-wise ("we still sell millions of our own mice to less discerning folks") is irrelevant. We're criticizing their mouse quality and commitment to making a good product, not their money making abilities.
It's not really that embarrassing. My dad's a surgeon: fits femoral nails. I've had fractures. Didn't put a femoral nail in me. Just wasn't a fracture that needed a nail. Not embarrassing that guy who spends every day putting in femoral nails decided not to put a femoral nail in when it came to his son.
I think you're being silly about this because you've committed to this bit. If you make something for someone else, doesn't mean you need that thing. You might even need a different thing. I don't get why this is such a big deal.
But, well, I was wrong about you running a company. Maybe I'm wrong about this. I'll drop it. I have a feeling you'll look back many years later and wonder why you thought this. But maybe not.
Mice are very hand and task specific. It's why we have a market full of significantly different mice with different features, sizes and forms.
Apple sells one mouse so it is impossible they could serve all users optimally. Maybe they should sell other styles of mice, but it is a pretty saturated market covered by a lot of low margin players.
> The Wall Street Journal last month published an interview with Cook, in which he said he uses every Apple product every day. Soon after, The Verge's Wes Davis attempted to replicate using every Apple product in a single day. During that day, Davis said he mostly used the MX Master 3, but sometimes switched to a Magic Mouse or Magic Trackpad.
> In other words, it was Davis who said he himself used a Logitech mouse, not Cook.
According to the MacRumors article, the misattribution came from The Mac Observer misreading an article by The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/22/24276142/tim-cook-wsj-in...
The author was attempting to interpret what a day with only Apple products would be like, written in a first person style.
They mentioned using a Logitech mouse but for someone skimming the article, it can be easy to misinterpret that as a pull quote from the mentioned WSJ interview