If you want to try different strategies in parallel, I work in sales for a healthcare SaaS and while my product is results/outcomes oriented, I have much better luck talking to people about RESULTS they want to achieve vs. PROBLEMS they want to solve. At least now we're getting excited about something good vs. something they are already sick of talking about, or know they can't fix.

Some of the pains in healthcare are so structurally embedded in the industry, products purporting to relieve those pains are so plentiful, and ACTUAL pain relieving results are so few and far between, that messages looking for honest input on major pains that doctors experience is too clear of a dogwhistle for "I'm going to try to sell you a solution that doesn't work" and will be ignored.

Many doctors, for example, are still nursing wounds caused by the shift to EMR from paper- pretty much every vendor in that space promises an "easy migration" and the reality is that porting to EMR or switching vendors is a massive massive pain in the ass. ANY solution for a pain, or for amplifying/increasing a beneficial outcome, comes at not only a financial cost, but (perhaps more importantly) an opportunity cost associated with the time investment. Time = patients, patients = reimbursement, reimbursement = money.

Edit: Another thing that works for me is seeding the conversation with something like, "Something I hear from a lot of providers in [specialty] is they have a problem with [problem], or they want to do more [thing]. Is that true in your practice?"

You made good points for the stage that you're in, i.e. you already have a solution that you can sort of pitch upfront (even seeding the conversation is a version of that). I'm at the point where I can't/don't want to bias them with the slightest hint of what I'm solving because it will taint their response. That makes it quite hard!

They have no reason to trust you. I would think you're just looking for an angle to sell me on no matter what you say.

You might try attending/crashing medical conferences in the area. You could also talk to folks on the periphery of the healthcare industry to look for opportunities.

One that I experienced personally is the difficulty in matching a specific person at a specific point in their treatment to applicable clinical trials. Particularly with cancer where there are so many inclusion/exclusion criteria to consider. The terminology is very dense and not always clear. Then you reach out to the PI and find that the window is even smaller than it appeared at first.

They do not trust me (why would they) and they think it's a sales tactic. I couldn't be purer in my intentions, but people are on the defensive.

And your pain point is actually one I've heard firsthand. Got a few ideas and connections in this area.

I'm not trying to be rude or insulting, but thinking you have pure intentions doesn't change this.

Some people might have the time or interest in the hope that you can one day make their work easier. So overall I understand why you are asking this question and I'm sure the advice people have given here will help you make some stronger connections to people in this cohort.

On the other hand, if you write me a longer message, explaining your background and position, give me all the background info, and let me answer via email, I might be more inclined to help, assuming you demonstrate that you at least have some understanding of the field.

Alternatively, you could offer to pay people for their time, which is not something sales people typically do.

Note that this stuff is never as easy as it sounds on paper, but if you put enough effort in, it eventually works (in my experience anyway).

Also note that even if you're not pitching a product for sale (yet) asking people for their time for an interview is still an ask. Ideally you'd like to be able to offer to compensate people for their time somehow. I don't mean paying them cash or anything, but think about how to structure your invitations in such a way as to communicate that you're offering them something in return for their time. That "something" might be "an early peek at a revolutionary new technology for ABC" or whatever you can think of that is a way of giving some value to them. Be creative.

Also, it's not always the easiest thing to go in asking people "what are your pain points" in an extremely open-ended way. You might find that it's easier to start with a hypothesis about a possible pain point, and pitch things in terms of "We've noticed that firms like yours often have to deal with problem $FOOBAR. To that end, we're developing a novel solution for $FOOBAR, and we'd love a few minutes of your time (no sales pitch!) to talk about how $FOOBAR and related problems affect you. In return for a 30 minute interview, we'll offer you $SOMETHING".

This is a humbling realization of what salespeople are up against. We all love to hate on these guys but man... What a hustle and you need armor-like skin and insane optimism and persistence.

Are you doing these in person or virtually? If you're doing it in person, you're already at the end and have the data you're looking for from the person you're talking with. "Do you know any other people I should talk to?" "Yeah" "Ok, could I just write their names down right now here?"

a "business" already works on what is built or established, refining processes to branch off beaten paths to sales/marketing

a "startup" operates with too many unknowns for the average person, 99% failure means only 1% of the people figure out the unknowns to become a "business"

I just don't understand why people just default to "startup". You should be focused on running a business and make a 15 cents out of a dollar spent, not spend a dollar to make 15 cents in hopes that someone will "buy you out" or you "ipo"

such are pipe dreams

You have to find a way to network.

Look at how pharma reps do it. Attractive people, coming into the office and bring lunch.

Where can you put yourself in a spot to meet and talk to a high percentage of doctors. My first thought is a golf course. Is there a way in that way?

Do you volunteer at a hospital on weekends?

Another tip is for anyone you talk to, ask for introductions. Who else has this problem?? I work in healthcare (not a doctor). Not sure if I can help, but happy to chat if you dm me.

Same retired pharma rep now volunteers at a major hospital a couple of days a week - most of his interaction is with patients - staff are too busy and volunteers provide the necessary welfare connections, especially with elderly and lonely patients.

put another way, you're asking people to take some of their time to teach you. I'm assuming that if you were offering compensation for this time you'd have mentioned it.

getting a 1% interview rate for an ask like that is exceptional. especially considering the people you're asking are known for being extremely busy, and you're asking from outside their industry.

First, find out where your prospects actually spend time. LinkedIn is garbage for a lot of industries. Most doctors don't change jobs much or building "personal brands", so they're not scanning LinkedIn often. Reddit can also be often a better community.

Second, don't cold message people. Put out HELPFUL (not clickbait) content. It can be as simple as a question ("hey, I'm wondering how people solve X?"). Let the community come to you. Then follow up with the people that engaged with your content. They've shown an interest in your topic AND a willingness to engage.

At the end of every call, ask two questions: can you follow up with them with further questions and is there anyone they can think of that would be helpful to learn more? For that second question ask them, IN THE CALL, to write an intro email/message connecting you. Social validation is critical.

Finally, actually follow up. 1-4 weeks later message an update, thank them for their perspective and connection, and again ask if there's anyone they can think of to learn more from.

From my coaching practice, people are not very good identifying there real pain point. My back hurts, but my back isn't broken, I just sit too much.

I know you don't want to sounds sales-y, and there are ways to offer this without sounding like a salesperson. Just an idea

> If they need money or a gift to tell me about their pain point, it's not a pain point.

This just doesn't follow. There are issues I face, but still have no incentive to spend time explaining them to you.

If you phrase it that way, it sounds like win-win. Free dinner AND I get to complain with no social downsides!

Yeah the coffee was just an idea to plant the seed that you value their time and feedback. It can be a steak dinner / massage to unwind from all the pain they experience around "X", etc.

Be careful how you position this so it does not come out as "paying for their time" and more like you value their time, this way you can weed out those that just want the incentive

[Before, during, and after the session you treat them well, don't waste their time, thank them, etc., which hopefully goes without saying]

Then when you're done with each interview, you ask the participant "hey, this was so great, can you recommend anybody else I should talk to?"

To that last sentence, I often used to add "... I'm looking for the most outspoken, opinionated expert you know, the person with no filter, who just tells it like it is". Chances are they know a person like that, and that person immediately leapt to their mind. That's who you really want to talk to anyway, the person who will tell you exactly what is wrong with everything out there.

In terms of asking people about pain points, the best approach I've used is to get them to list their pain points, then ask them to stack rank that list. If applicable, ask them how much they'd pay for a product that solved each of those problems, or just the top n. You want to know whether they're just brainstorming minor quibbles, or if there is actually an opportunity there.

They became doctors to practice medicine. Most likely, their pain points have to do with all the non-medical parts of running a small business, including staying in compliance with regulations like HIPAA.

As others have said, you'd likely have more success leveraging your existing network or attending medical conferences, which may lend themselves more naturally to having these types of conversations (you're right that they're expensive though!).

All things considered, I think a 25% connection rate and a 1% interview rate is great.

I had this doc tell me in the most condescending way possible that she could make good bank if she charged my kind for all the free advice she's giving out... And denied me the advice until I demonstrated my worth. And then her advice was a bunch of shitty platitudes.

I had this psychologist basically suggest I write an essay about why docs are driving change in healthcare. I obliged.

On the other hand I had a wonderful doc out of SC who straight up shared his screen with me, unprompted, to show me his problem. This is the kind of guy that gives me hope.

Doctors are particularly difficult group to get a hold of cold for somewhat obvious reasons (overworked, value privacy, etc).

The most effective approach I've seen is to focus on a niche type of medicine/field and attend one of the smaller conferences. Especially if you can find one that's less academic and more industry-oriented.

That's where you'll find the doctors who actively are interested in startups and getting into new things.

Sometimes these conferences will also have built-in networking functions to help facilitate.

"hey, talk to me in an open ended fashion about how you do _____ in your business and I'll summarize the responses, show you how you compare and share all of the solutions I know about that can help you"

Users, mortals, normal people would come in for a gift card and lunch.

Small business owners, C levels, non bank VP's had to be given (and im going to date myself) a palm V or something of equal value to come in....

Short of putting money on the table your response rates are HUGE. The question is are you getting the responses from the right/best segment of the industry. Remember your competing for their "attention" with every medical sales person out there, drugs, devices, marketing... "golf" is still a thing.

If you feel the need to add something into the mix: Build a News letter (head start on marketing. Run ad campaign (very targeted and expensive) and sign up form or survey (exclude all non dr's you capture).

I am not a doctor, but my university email was somehow put on a list of medical professionals.

So now my university email is barraged with all sorts of SPAM targeting medical professionals. It's impossible to unsubscribe/opt out. (I've tried, but I keep getting added to new lists. It's like the original list keeps reselling my email address.) I'm sure it's much worse for an actual medical professional.

I'm assuming you're not calling (Even with calls, I personally don't answer calls from unknown numbers due to the SPAM calls. You need to be leave a text if it is important, or be very persistent.)

I was able to interview a few people and I consider them heroes because against all odds, they still gave me the time of day despite not knowing a thing about me.

2. look where those users are. they might be in subreddits or fb groups or wherever.

3. look for apps they use. there are lots of it in android play store and apple store.

4. read the helpful and critical reviews. these statements prove that there is demand, that some people like it, and that some people care enough to voice out their frustrations.

5. if you havent read the mom test, find a pirated copy, or just buy it. this book will course correct your interactions and expectations with your users.

Doctors know this - and they do take advantage of it from time to time. But you’re competing with a lot of money for highly valuable time. Maybe consider going where doctors go (e.g. conferences) and bothering them there?

If you're just generally trying to get an idea of pain points in the industry I think you should get more specific. Here are some for instances:

- Are you trying to make the interface between the doctor and the patient easier?

- Are you going to look at the way the doctors interact with the EHR (electronic health records) vendors?

- Are you trying to make the check-in process easier for patients?

- Are you trying to provide analytics for long term quality of care metrics on hospitals?

- Are you targeting small clinics, hospitals, or ER/minor emergency rooms?

Also for cold calling doctors on Linkedin, I am not surprised that you aren't getting much feedback. Most of the doctors I've known tend not to be into online stuff. You might have more luck reaching out to a local professional organization.

Also you might think about trying to contact nurses, nurse practitioners, or physician's assistants. There might be a local nurses professional organization that you could reach out to who could ask their members if anybody is interested. Just frame it as you're trying to figure out a way to make their jobs easier.

This ended up being a little rambly, but I hope it's useful. Cheers.

And even if they do answer you, it's a bad idea to commit to those answers. There's a book written specifically about this (The Mom Test), but the point is: asking people about their problems is not a good way to validate a startup idea.

I'm partially talking to the person to help them out, partially to help out the introer who I already know, and partially because who knows maybe this person will actually be good to know.

Can you get intros from others? One way to do this is when a random cold outreach does agree to be interviewed by you, at the end of your call you can say, "Is there anyone else in your industry that you can introduce me to/that I should talk to?"

Even better if you've looked at their linkedin connections and can say, "Hey I noticed you are connected with X and Y. Do you know them well enough to introduce me? I'd love to have a similar conversation with them."

If they say yes then send them a pre-written intro to make it as low lift as possible for them. "Hey x, I asked y if they could introduce us. I'm looking to learn about painpoints for yada yada..."

I've used that strategy in the past and branching like that tends to have a much higher success rate than random cold outreach.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/11/12/why-doctors-ha...

It illustrates a hugely significant problem you will face: decisions about what processes to follow and what software to use are made by administrators and not front-line doctors or nurses.

If you ask front-line doctors and nurses their biggest pain point, I imagine a common answer will be "our administrators are morons". (I have once heard this expressed by a nurse friend, with breathtaking vitriol.) Unfortunately that is not something you can write software to help with.

At least this is my naive understanding

https://www.amazon.com/Mom-Test-customers-business-everyone/...

First, it helps that it’s niche—it avoids the “make healthcare better with electronic healthcare records” space, which can only but descend into making a much of text boxes available on a screen and promising that AI will do… something…

Second, we will listen to our clients, and probe their needs. But we’re most successful when we observe our clients. When we’re not in the thick of it, we have more space to ask “does it have to be this way?” We work very hard to formulate the problem so that a piece of software is not the default solution.

Few of the pain points are “exciting” or “glamorous”. But anything that means the practitioner is spending more time with the patient is a big win, even if it means applying some very boring technology.

Best of luck.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40114696

Article: https://jakeseliger.com/2024/04/22/the-emotional-trial-of-cl...

He published a PDF guide here: https://thefoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Intro-t...

And there are many examples of him doing idea extraction online. While you can do IE via email/chat, phone calls or even in-person meetings are most effective.

---

- Instead of quantity, go for quality. You just need a few good idea extraction sessions. (You may have to cold-call 100's of contacts before that first good session, though...)

My cousin was a dietician so she gave me a wonderful session. (I still have the notes.) She also referred me to a fellow dietician. That session did not go so well.

Very small sample size, but it seems there is a correlation between dieticians and a personality type that is not the easiest (for me) to talk with. Either certain personality types are driven to become dieticians, or the arduous journey to become a dietician filters/forms this personality. Not sure about other fields...

I decided to switch niches when I discovered how complex it would be to follow HIPAA regulations.

- message founders in the space with "I'm working on a new startup and could use your advice"

- after each interview ask them for a referral to someone who you could interview

This creates a referral flywheel and eventually will be a function that brings you customers. I have written a blog post on the topic but I don't think linking here is cool.

Hope this is ok/helps ^

I've had luck in another field, finding a very popular forum online that those in the field used. I simply introduced myself and offered to do IT work on their offices as a chance to meet people and learn more about the industry. It worked wonders.

I found out where they worked.

I called the public number.

I asked to talk to them.

I explained I was thinking about starting a startup and I needed some help thinking through some ideas.

2 of them told me they couldn't give me the time. 15 gave me a longer than 1 hour call at a later date, 3 of them let me fly out to them and spend a day with them.

Took me about 5/6 months.

Of so is the business still doing what you thought it would be doing after you’d done those interviews?

2. You can host a booth at/attend a medical conference, and hand out or display QR code links to a survey with the interview questions.

[1] The response rate correlates to the product of how painful the problem is and whether the potential responder has some faith that you have a solution.

Offering the honorarium makes the request seem more like a legit market research project. Which of course it is

2. You can host a booth at/attend a medical conference, and hand out/display QR code links to your survey

What city are you in? There must be a health tech meeting of some sort near you. I live in Austin and I run one with 400 members, but there are 5 others programming meetups all the time. pharma, billers, techs, and nurses shouldn't be forgotten either!

there is a hack around this but each industry is different

My advice to you is to enter this area only if you or someone involved is capable of getting very deep into the kind of medicine you're writing software for. I don't just mean "they commonly do procedures X and Y and tests A and B a lot".

The reputation of people in medicine not liking tech is wrong. We just don't like using bad tech, which is most of it.

It would help if you gave more targeted thoughts on what specifically you're looking to develop.

In addition the the other comments, maybe you have some personal networks. But expert networks are probably the best bet that doesn't involve personal connections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQjBawcU_qg

and maybe read this (optional)

https://therewiredgroup.com/case-studies/milkshakes/

TL;DR: A lot of folks (myself included) think that the sort of discovery interview you're describing is somewhere between unhelpful and dangerous. People cannot tell you what their problem is, they can only tell you what they think you want to hear. Yes, I'm generalizing, but it's hard to estimate how many entrepreneur-years have been burned by attempting to solve a problem someone told them that they have.

My suggestion is that you figure out a way to deeply embed yourself in a world or industry, possibly for a few years. The less sexy the domain, the better. Pay close attention, look for solvable problems with your own eyes.

Often there are opportunities hiding in plain sight that people don't see because there's an entrenched "way things are done". But frankly, you have no business disrupting how soup gets canned if you have never worked in a soup canning plant. Don't bring on an industry expert as a startup co-founder; be the industry expert.