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On could also see it exactly the other way round: Java's strong typing makes it possible for an IDE to do amazing things, which help you cope with horrible codebases, which in turn makes code viable that would be completely unmanageable in other languages.

As for "Java is essentially designed to be impossible to code without an IDE.", I'd say that's a pretty ridiculous statement given the state of art of IDEs at the time Java was designed and became widely used. They did little more than integrate editor, compiler and debugger.




Perhaps it just has to do with modern practices and libraries encouraged by modern IDEs. I approached it recently, so I can't speak for times before the IDEs were there.

Strong typing is certainly very helpful for making smart compilers and tools---I can't deny that, I'm a Haskell junky. I don't think it's always a best practice though. Being able to handle horrible codebases means that the language/editor environment also allows horrible codebases to survive longer.


That always seemed a really, really unproductive notion to me, that great tools must be bad because they help you deal with problems that would otherwise make you fail sooner.


I didn't say IDEs weren't powerful or good in and of themselves. I indicated the opposite. Sports cars are fantastic. They are really fun to drive. I would start walking if everyone in America had one. Too dangerous.


I didn't say IDEs weren't powerful or bad. I indicated the opposite. Sports cars are fantastic. They are really fun to drive. I would start walking if everyone in America had one. Too dangerous.


No Sorry, And please.

Almost all Java programmers I've seen so far can barely write any code without IDE, autocompletion and intellisense. Even people who claim to have years of experience in Java.

Its just the community is very heavily on IDE side. The libraries, frameworks are all heavy bloats designed with the perspective that IDE is going to take care of that anyway.

In other words, Java world without IDE doesn't exist and I presume that is going to be the case for a long time to come.

And that is one of the reasons why I never went deep into Java because one tour of eclipse and the best and worst Java programmers both become the same.


Yeah, do keep repeating your bias and prejudices while ignoring conflicting facts pointed out by others, and tell yourself that makes you smart.


Its neither a bias nor a prejudice. Because I write in Java and Other languages like Python and Perl in my day job. Although I'm trying to run away from Java as quickly as I can.

Vast majority of Java programmers can't program without IDE's is a fact. Java being verbose is a fact. Java frameworks being bloated is a fact. Medium to large Java application not being easily handled thorough ordinary tools like text editors is a fact.

Its almost like what Dijkstra said couple of decades back about basic. It can destroy your thinking abilities. I don't want to risk mine with too much exposure to autocompletion and intellisense. And without them it makes zero sense to write in Java, as you can no longer be even remotely productive.

Well I don't know about others, but I, myself would not like to be bunched in that kind of commodity market of programmers whose only known expertise is 'Knows how to use an IDE'.





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