I sometimes query this to help me recall details from years ago, so I'm sad that the encroachment of very broad government surveillance and the rise to power of extremist politicians makes it unacceptably dangerous to continue to provide the service.
It was priceless when filling my naturalisation application, which required me to write the exact dates of every international trip I did in the past 5 years.
Also, it's great for trying to fit loose memories in dates and locations.
wouldnt your passport have that information as opposed to relying on third party information? so....... how would the government in this case "verify" your exact dates?
Many countries don't stamp your passport anymore, many that do don't put a date, and even if I relied on that information stamps are messy, out of order, and fading.
The government probably has a list of international flights I've taken somewhere. I honestly don't think they will use it they probably don't deny citizenships because I missed a couple of trips (unlike, say, not reporting frequent trips to North Korea).
It's still nice to do the right thing and fill up that data to the best of my knowledge.
So many, really. It seems to depend on the agent. I’ve passed through US customs and not gotten stamped.
Israel famously does not. They’ll give you a small slip with your details on it. I was told that an Israeli stamp on your passport would automatically bar you from entry in many Arab states so they came up with another system
Also pretty much anytime I have entered the UK via the global entry lanes I never got stamped.
If they’re applying for a visa or citizenship there’s likely requirements that you must have spent X% per year in the country and not abroad, even if it’s inside the schengen zone (or similar). Asking for the exact dates of your travel outside the country is likely the best way to do that
There’s a threshold, you need to have been physically present in the US for 50% of the days of the year requirements.
For example if you’re applying for citizenship based on the 5 year rule, then you must’ve been physically present for at least 30 months (913 days to be exact) in those 5 years prior to your application.
18 months (548 days) if you’re applying based on the 3 year rule as a spouse of a US citizen.
So 8 days instead of 12 can mean it’s no big deal or it can mean you’re not eligible if those 4 days make or break your required amount of days physically present in the US.
It’s one of those silly things the government already knows but wants you report anyways.
While the US doesn’t do a passport check before leaving via the airport, airlines automatically send over departure information to CBP, that’s how they are able to show this information in the I-94 on the website.
Obviously entry is also recorded.
I suppose it’s a way to make it easier to filter out ineligible people at the beginning of processing applications without having to delve into the records to verify and in part to see if you’re honest.
I wish I could opt out of this change. I've been asking Google to remember my location for more than a decade, and it's an amazing record of where we've been, when. I don't care that the government or Google can see it, it's still super useful. I'd pay to keep it in the cloud.
Hopefully there's some way you'll be able to get it out of your device. Obviously not as ideal as a simple checkbox in Google, but to me making you have to set up some sort of export/sync yourself is an acceptable tradeoff for what the rest of us get from this change. Of course, it's easy for me to say that, because I don't use the feature basically at all ;)
It's not that I just want to export what I have right now (which can already be done), but that the active tracking was a valuable service to me. I hope somebody offers an alternative.
Discovery is subject to oversight. The court signs off on the subpoena and your lawyer gets to argue why it's not valid before it does. No, "because I dislike you" isn't going to fly. But if you're in a legitimate feud with someone and they can make a real case that your location information is important evidence for the court to see, sure.
You can allege anything you want in court and proceed exactly like someone having a "legitimate feud." You might be punished later for making up a bunch of bogus claims, but you still got the information you shouldn't have.
This is especially effective if you're a powerful person or corporation and can find a litigant willing to sacrifice their own assets and/or freedom to pursue a fake lawsuit on your behalf. The justice system is subject to Sybil attacks like any other system.
Again, no, because courts don't as a general rule treat with "bogus" claims. If you try to lie to get a subpoena, the other counsel calls bullshit and the judge agrees. This just isn't a thing. This is another angle of the "Hackers Think The Law is a Computer" disconnect. People don't try to hack the courts like this because they tend to get disbarred if they try.
My personal experience is inconsistent with your broad confidence in the justice system's resilience to abuse, and in fact is one of the main reasons why I retired from active practice as a litigator. I've found that concepts like "bullshit" in civil law have many shades of gray, especially when you're dealing with a genuinely angry client seeking justice.
If your experience is closer to the truth, then maybe the tech industry should retain lawyers to redesign our security systems!
In theory, yes. But we wouldn't even be having this conversation if we had a functioning legal system, government agencies that respected people's rights, and government lawyers that didn't "interpret" constitutional protections out of existence behind closed doors.
I believe you that you feel that way. Your phrasing however is awfully close to a "no true scotsman" argument, because you seem to be talking about the USA, which by all means and measures still has a functioning legal system -- despite attacks from all sides, inlcuding major political parties. It produces predictable outcomes according to law and fundamental rights are respected.
According to the World Justice Project [1] the USA is in spot 26 of 150+ examined nations. Worse than most European countries, but far better than most of the world. And while the general "rule of law" trend for the USA is declining for the last decade, checks on government power have actually improved in recent years.
If you don't believe me or WJP numbers, I invite you to travel abroad and spend some time in Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Pakistan, Egypt, or even Hungary. If that's too much to ask, just try doing business there. I was involved in projects in some of the above mentioned countries and I tell you, the contrast is startling.
After the end of Roe v Wade, do you really want these nine justices, all of whom iirc said Roe v Wade is the settled law of the land, to decide whether you are a citizen?
Remember that the prosecution says anything no matter how trivial can be used to revoke citizenship.
Does your HN username count as a nickname? Prosecution might say yes. And again this isn't about you or me. It is the same thing as dragnet surveillance. I don't matter but somewhere in our nation or beyond the next MLK or the next great activist will be born and I want them to be able to develop and achieve their goals without being caught up in gotchas.
It is for that person probably not yet born that I don't want a two tiered citizenship system.
Context from the New York Times
Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked about the failure to disclose an embarrassing childhood nickname. Justice Elena Kagan said she was a “little bit horrified to know that every time I lie about my weight it has those kinds of consequences.”
Mr. Parker said the law applied to all false statements, even trivial ones.
Justice Stephen G. Breyer said it was “rather surprising that the government of the United States thinks” that the naturalization laws should be “interpreted in a way that would throw into doubt the citizenship of vast percentages of all naturalized citizens.”
Chief Justice Roberts added that the government’s position would give prosecutors extraordinary power. “If you take the position that not answering about the speeding ticket or the nickname is enough to subject that person to denaturalization,” he said, “the government will have the opportunity to denaturalize anyone they want.”
No court anywhere is going to get all the way to discovery in a case without representation, that's silly. If you're really in a situation where you're sued by Real Lawyers and refuse to respond like that, what will end up happening is some kind of default judgement. Discovery only happens once people start arguing about stuff.
Though there is a corrolary: occasionally you'll see suits filed against John/Jane Doe defendants. The plaintiff knows they've been wronged and wants justice, but they don't know who the entities are they need to sue for some reason. In those circumstances you can get subpoenas issued to produce e.g. phone logs or security footage, etc... in order to move the case along.
You can turn it off on Android, I did so a few years ago. Although my phone has a perfectly good GPS receiver, Google really dislikes having it turned off and constantly pesters me to turn it back on when using their Map product.
I enable it from the drop down settings menu when I need navigation in Google Maps and in OSMAnd. Google Maps doesn't ask me to turn on Location Services if I'm only looking at a map or to street view.
Location access on device absolutely. The problem here is the Google has been collecting extremely detailed location data, going back years, for nearly all of its users.
And while it’s mildly interesting or useful to some, it’s dangerous to others, especially given it’s stored in a central location out of their control, and running all the time, not just when you’re using Maps.
Sorry, I phrased that poorly. Google dislikes having google location services turned off (eg when requesting directions), although the phone has a perfectly good GPS receiver to figure out where it is currently. It's like they don't want to do any lookups unless they're allowed to store the data, so I find myself manually typing in a nearby address as my starting point to get directions.
The annoying thing is that if you disable "automatically track everywhere I go" you lose features like "let me manually provide my home address so I can tap the home button to get directions there". I totally get why that kind of thing gets overlooked, but it's technically unnecessary and also annoying.
Hopefully it can still be downloaded from the device? Then you could just upload the export to a tool and view it, like people do with GDPR exports of other services.
I've already looked into OpenTracks and Locus. Trying to find another app I trust to do this anyway...
You can't find one you trust, Android uses Google's location service to get your location. If you trust Google to uphold your "don't store this", you may be OK.
Have never found myself in and cannot imagine a circumstance where I'd need to know my precise location at a point in time years ago, or really even at any time other than the present.
I travel quite a lot and I routinely look back at my trips from years ago to see what restaurants I visited and where I stayed. It shows me my path on a map and also shows my photos taken at each location which lets me relive my trips easily. It's quite an amazing feature most people don't even know exists.
I just did it the other day to recommend a hole in the wall restaurant in Italy I was last at in 2016. I couldn't even narrow it down to the correct street until I was able to find it on Google timeline.
Need? Probably not. It was certainly handy though knowing the week I was there and what the interior looked like.
I suppose this is a bit of a special case but the US and Canadian governments both require you to provide the full list of trips from the last ten years when applying for citizenship and permanent residency. Timeline is incredibly helpful there.
Could come up with a thousand reasons, but if you want a quick "Fun" reason and a quick "Utilitarian" reason:
Fun: I travel a ton, I love looking at where I went to relive the experience. Especially if it was a recent travel and I'm showing things off to friends asking about it. I just open up the Timeline and say "Okay, well this day we flew in - then we took a 4 hour car ride, then we hung in this town for a few days, then took a boat to this island for some camping, then flew over to this city for a week, and..."
Utilitarian: As a US Citizen living abroad, I apply for the FEIE tax exemption every year to help me keep my first ~$120k as untaxed from the Feds (Should be my entire income, but no - US needs to tax on citizenship and not residency like nearly everyone else.. but I digress). For this rule, I need to have full 24-hour days in foreign territory, so for my documentation to ensure I'm still within my limit, I like pulling up Timeline - snapping a screenshot/export and saving it for later should I ever be audited.
I love location data. In fact when I travel, I bring a GPS logger to track all my locations, it helps me sync up my ok photos and retrace my steps. I have pretty precise maps of ally big trips in the last 10 years.
A GPS logger? What does that do over just your phone? I've been wanting an app to log my location outside of Google but was having trouble picking one to trust
My main concern for having a dedicated GPS logging device is the battery drain of the tracking apps on my phone. Used to have a Transystem 747ProS [1] which uses a Nokia BL-5C battery and would last a few days. However, that device was quite dated even then and its accuracy often lacking.
Now I am carrying a dedicated Android phone with me (a Xiaomi Mi 11 Lite 5G) on which I have PhoneTrack [2] installed. The app starts tracking as soon as the phone is moving and saves all the data on device. I used to have an instance of Owntracks [3] running, but now I just run a simple Flask app which pipes the GPS points to a PostGIS database on my local network when I am home. To visualize the tracks, I import them into QGIS. As the phone is solely used for tracking and only when I take it with me, the battery lasts about three days.
I'm not sure it's what you need but OSMAnd is open source and can record your movements. I use it to record some of my bicycle rides, then I share it to my laptop for a backup, or to whatever share target the app can find.
The plus version is on F-Droid for free. It has unlimited map downloads.
I imagine having that record your movements 24/7 would drain the battery like crazy, though.
If you look at Google Timeline, sometimes the track it records is not particularly accurate, likely because it's only getting updates for significant changes in your location.
I also use OwnTracks to keep track of myself, and there I can see the individual points it gets from the OS notifying it of location changes, and... it's honestly not that great sometimes.
I'm recording one position every 5 seconds when I want to get a GPX track of my ride. If I only wanted a record of my general position I guess I could take 1 position every 5 minutes. However I keep my GPS turned off and I never gave my location history to Google in all these years so I really don't know what the impact would be on battery.
Proofing you were not at a crime scene at a certain time. You disabled location saving - that's suspicious?
/s
More serious, if it would be my data under my control, it can be fun checking the past. Exploring where you travelled and when .. but that is kind of my buisness amd not googles. But since I use a android phone, they have it anyway.
It works handily with Google photos where you can break out an itinerary of an old trip. As with most things, it's for nostalgia so if you're not wired that way, it's not really useful to you. I love reminiscing over old trips and having these details.
Perhaps you’ll stay that way, but it’s pretty common.
For work, I have to produce reports of countries I’ve visited and dates. So looking at location history is pretty handy for remembering if I visited Sweden in 2018 or 2019. Etc etc.
If a feature is being proposed and mandatory, then the existence of one person who doesn't like it is significant.
But if it's already optional, and being removed entirely, then that persons's existence isn't that relevant; what's relevant is the people who DO like it and are losing something for them.
I've used it for estimating driving miles for taxes (cause I suck at tracking it during the ride)
I've also used it for remembering what I was doing on specific days. It's wild how the location movements can accurately prompt my brain for the activities on those days
I was a victim of a car accident. When I was filing the claim with their insurance provider, they wanted the exact location and time of the incident as proof; Timeline has absolutely come in handy for me :)
It's really helpful for remembering that one random restaurant from five years ago in a different state, or retracing our travels through a foreign country so we can better match them with our photos.
Google remembers many places I've totally forgotten about, and it's really nice to be able to revisit the nostalgia when I'm older.
I've been logging this for more than a decade, and it's a lot of fun to go back in time and revisit and rediscover old favorites.
It's one of my favorite features in all of Google :(
I've found it mildly useful for when I say I'll meet up with a friend but I've forgotten their address, so then look at my timeline to see where it is (since I generally remember the last time I saw a friend, if not exactly where their house was).
I disabled location history a while ago for privacy reasons. It was _so_ cool to look back and see where I went during trips, or where I was on a given day in college, but it felt weird that it could potentially be exposed to everyone in a leak.
It's great to hear that Google is making such a big move. Google is not known for respecting user privacy.
> Google is not known for respecting user privacy.
As a Googler, I’m always confused by this sentiment. We live in times where car manufacturers reserve the right to collect and sell any data the car can sense, up to and including your sex life. But somehow Google does not sell or share any of your data with anyone, makes it public how it fights a lot of law enforcement overreach, even outright exits markets and sunsets features and products due to privacy concerns… And is everyone’s top focus when it comes to privacy.
Simple answer. Google doesn't cultivate an image of caring about privacy. It's the complete failure of Google PR. It's also due to an outdated notion of confidentiality that kept so much privacy-related deliberations within the company. Google should just publish slightly sanitized versions of their internal PDDs with PWG comments to win back trust. (For people who had never worked at Google: PDD means privacy design doc, like a privacy policy but with a lot more details; PWG means privacy working group, specific teams tasked with ensuring good privacy practices in all products launched by Google.)
If PRISM is in your threat model… You can safely assume that any large enough US-affiliated web service, hardware and software manufacturer is in scope of something like this. Good luck evading.
To play devils advocate, there are a few reasons off the top of my head:
1. More people have phones than cars
2. Cars take someone to a general location (i.e a shopping mall carpark) but phones are precise enough to say which section of a store (or hospital) you are in
3. Car manufacturers can't inherently link the passengers of the car to the driver, or to each other
4. Manufacturers of cars don't have ads as a core business model
That's not to say what car manufacturers are doing isn't scummy -- it deserves more light. But what Google does affects more people in a much more complex way. Google doing this essentially takes attention away from these smaller cases of privacy violations -- if the Google issue is solved (and I'm using Google here as a supplement for "phone tracking") then the world would turn their focus to the smaller issues like car tracking.
Maybe because it's the biggest advertisement company that continually hits the news regarding privacy issues, market position misuse, deceptive marketing, legal issues, etc?
My understanding is the adcopalypse happened because Google refused to share as much information with partners such as WPP and big spending customers such as Pepsi. I'm just saying as bad as things are with real time bidding, it could be much worse with a company such as Microsoft or Oracle setting industry standards.
I mean, really? Let's see, Google is trying to force through Web Environment Integrity which would eventually obliterate any remaining semblance of privacy on the web, it has historically disrespected GDPR, it's trying to work around GDPR with a so-called "Privacy Sandbox" which is anything but, it's trying to sunset Manifest v3 which will take power away from Chrome users, just to name a few current & recent developments.
This is not an image/PR issue, Google really is doing Evil™ things.
Assuming good faith, the technology makes it possible for your browser, OS and hardware to attest that the website is running in a certain type of environment (e.g. not a bot/scraper) which could be trivially extended to attestations such as "No, this client isn't using an ad blocker". It takes even more control away from users by having their own hardware snitch on them.
You can reference numerous previous discussions on HN regarding WEI for more information.
They withdraw it somewhere between 2-6 weeks ago due to the reaction.
I used to work at Google, I got over the initial 'gee we're pretty nice and concerned' thing, but would like to gently point out the tendency of people to be slightly histrionic and misinformed about it. The gap between what it was, briefly, and the confidence you have in its intent and current state are quite wide. Certainly well-intentioned and appreciated, but ultimately alarmist and inaccurate.
I know the current iteration of WEI was withdrawn and I don't claim to know what their current intentions are. They might be completely innocent, but the fact is that WEI would pave the way for abuse. Once the core functionality is there, there's an obvious financial incentive for them to start expanding WEI in order to boost their advertising revenue.
These types of ideas with significant potential for abuse should be introduced with extreme caution and with at least majority agreement of everyone affected. Instead Google tried to pull a fast one and refused to engage criticisms in good faith. My response might seem alarmist at first glance, but I don't think that's a fair accusation given Google's behavior. I expect this proposal to return under a different name once everyone's forgotten about it and I hope the backlash then will be as severe as it was against WEI.
Google is a company that, over the years, employed over a million unique human beings. In such a population you’re bound to find some that would sell their own mother for a promo.
WEI is following Apple’s lead isn’t it? But unlike Apple, Google got pushback and abandoned it.
When it comes to GDPR, that’s even funnier. Most companies woke up in 2018 and looked for a way to brush this off. My org in Google was investing serious development (we’re talking engineer-years, don’t know how many) into GDPR compliance in 2015. And that’s not some superficial fronted tweak. I’m talking about adding data removal to analytical storage, something where first design assumption was that it has immutable append-only history.
Manifest v3… I don’t understand what are they trying to achieve.
There's too many awful or just self-dealing forces in the world which will legislate access to user's data. There's nothing your company can do to defend itself. The situation will only intensity and get worse, governments will only ever expand their legal access to the cloud's many data-keeps.
Data is toxic. It's a risk to your company, given the 195 different nations which each might hit you up to demand uncomfortable & scary privileges. Having data will encourage people in your company to use it, which half the time is bad & scary. Don't have data.
This goes against so many of my desires, is against my aspirations for the Information Age, but it seems so impossible to give users their own sovereignty, to leave them in control. Everyone else has all the power over the data, and that makes data toxic.
Bruce Schneier wrote a similar post back in 2016, and he was ridiculed pretty badly by everybody. Interesting to see how the opinion has shifted to the other extreme in less than 10 years.
What I hate is there’s no way for me to say “I know the risks, I still want this feature”. I have been carefully making sure this data is collected for years and I use it all the time.
Beautiful idea but I think it only applies to big, onshore players who can be sued or bullied.
There are tons of little data brokers buying locations from cell companies and unscrupulous ad networks driving all those apps on your phone collecting locations for no benefit to you; these brokers are behind Delaware shell corps or offshore.
Currently, data as toxic waste is still in the phase in which toxic waste was cavalierly dumped everywhere, including into water supplies.
Industry loves this phase.
Once org charts start going to jail, and companies start getting hit with existential levels of fines and lawsuits, then data will be in a much better phase of toxic waste.
Only after the major players have divested and created an alternative will it start appearing in headlines and public opinion that we should legislate it harshly.
Wait, I have so many questions. So will this data still be exportable? Will it be stored with the OS or with Maps? If with Maps, what happens if someone clears the app data? If with the OS, what happens to people without the most recent Android versions? How do you prevent accidentally losing the data just because you moved phones or lost yours or cleared the app data?
> If you’re getting a new phone or are worried about losing your existing one, you can always choose to back up your data to the cloud so it doesn’t get lost. We’ll automatically encrypt your backed-up data so no one can read it, including Google.
This product is by far the biggest, most useful, hole in my privacy stance.
I'd never have an internet-connected camera in my home for example but I get genuine use and joy out of Google keeping 10 years' record of everywhere I've been, including the night I first hooked up with my wife and we fell into a taxi at 1am. Neither of us can properly remember it, but Google does.
Yes, the biggest gripe was it should be opt in but now given that is true I'm ok with location history. The sad part is that it isn't Google we are worried about anymore but rather the government. :/
I don't like this change. What's going to be their proposal on multi device data sync, especially including web browsers? During my trip, I just let my phone log the path. Then I edit/browse it on my desktop since it's very inefficient to do so on my phone. With this change, this flow becomes almost infeasible or at least very tedious.
I agree, but I think the headline is misleading. The data can still be backed up in the cloud. However, it will be end-to-end encrypted. It seems to me like the real issue is the inability of web apps to process end-to-end encrypted data. Are there any web standards efforts to solve this?
Google's messaging is misleading, too. The data is likely encrypted, but it's impossible for it to be encrypted "end to end" like they claim.
> You can encrypt and upload a copy of your Timeline from this device to your Google Account, in case you lose your device or need to switch devices.
You can recover the data after losing your device (which would be the only "end" in end to end encryption), which means that the data isn't actually E2EE, and thus Google or anyone with access to your Google account can still access it.
You are wrong. It can still be end-to-end encrypted using a password. Android backups are end-to-end encrypted (iPhone backups too but only if you enable the optional "Advanced Data Protection" feature) using your phone unlock code as a password. The phone unlock code is never sent to Google/Apple, it is only processed locally on your phone.
Your phone unlock code is typically not complex enough to withstand brute force attacks, so brute force attack resistance is added using an HSM in the datacenter (just as brute forcing the code locally is prevented using an HSM in the phone). A similar technique is also used by Signal, you can read about it here: https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2020/07/10/a-few-th...
Which is probably rather pointless for that usecase, because you don't want to blindly batchprocess the geodata, you want to interactively display it to the user.
Tangential: Is anyone else getting burned out from having to transfer data between phones?
Let me explain. I’ve been rocking the same iPhone backup since 2010 and I never lost anything… but now if I lose my phone I will lose my eSIMs, as well as any non-passkey 2FA. What next?
Just recently I was unable to reinstall my eSIM for an hour and my headache was growing stronger as I imagined what all the services that (still) relied on SMS 2FA, all of which would not be activatable without it.
Switching to a new phone now requires me going through my long app list to determine which apps “probably” need to be reactivated on the new phone, while still having access to the old phone.
Back on topic: now I also have to worry about my location history being lost forever should I need to uninstall a buggy Google Maps (happens just about yearly)
This is part of why I hate 2FA implementations that force a specific app. One of the sites I have to be able to log into added 2FA that requires a specific app, even more annoyingly, if setup with another app, the setup isn't outright rejected, it just produces the wrong totp.
It's much more convenient to have a yubikey+backup or something with a sane backup/sync system (eg password managers like Bitwarden).
Can’t speak to eSIM problems, but I’ve moved as much to synced passkeys as possible, and the last of my 2FA/MFA in Bitwarden will be migrated as those sites support passkeys.
As long as the data on my device is synced to iCloud storage or backups, that meets my needs. If the UX around an app is not great when switching phones or requires some esoteric incantations, I just won’t use it.
> As long as the data on my device is synced to iCloud storage
But is it though? That’s the major catch. Something as important as Google Authenticator is not backed up, so you must enable sync to your account to ensure you don’t lose it (which wasn’t a thing at all until recently)
I don’t use nor recommend Google Authenticator. If you want a secure 2FA/MFA, use a hardware token or a passkey. TOTPs without a backup or sync is pain waiting to happen.
Of course, syncing TOTPs comes with its own threat model. Something to keep in mind.
I recently moved my wife to a new phone. It took only a couple of minutes to transfer the esim. But SMS was blocked for 24 hours. Some kind of security measure? So I couldn't activate any apps that required 2FA via SMS. Quite a hassle.
eSIM is a failed technology. Instead of making it easier to move, they just gave the operators more control. In some cases, transfers are simply not possible (like with most eSIMs on Airalo)
I've had my google activity turned off for a long time. Every so often they add a new privacy item so I keep checking back in every few months. https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity . Unless you use google services a lot, I'd suggest turning it off. You will lose personalized searches though. That doesn't matter much to me though, as they seem to get worse over time and not better.
As an early adopter of Google Latitude, my location database is currently about 400 MB.
During a bout of Degoogling I‘ve imported my Google Location History Takeout into php-owntracks-recorder and used it happily with the OwnTracks app on my phones.
About a year ago I’ve replaced it with PhoneTrack running on my NextCloud - while keeping the OwnTracks app as a client.
These days, I want to check out Traccar and how it compares to PhoneTrack. I believe Traccar can also work with OwnTracks data. So if the Traccar client doesn’t behave, it’s a nice alternative.
I've been using OwnTracks for years now with no issues. I disabled battery optimization for it. Granted, I don't have a phone made by a manufacturer that has decided to add garbage to the OS to aggressively kill background apps.
Only annoyance is Android has a thing where it doesn't allow apps that start on boot to automatically start getting GPS data, so on every boot you have to tap a notification to kick things off.
Which phone manufacturer is that? I hate having to remember all the apps I disable battery optimization for. I think I currently have like 5 apps or so.
On my iOS device, according to the battery report in the Settings app, the Traccar client does appear to use about 8% of my battery throughout the day. Google doesn’t show up at all, however, which doesn’t seem correct at all, so I’m not sure Google isn’t doing something to hide its true consumption from the OS.
> If you’re getting a new phone or are worried about losing your existing one, you can always choose to back up your data to the cloud so it doesn’t get lost. We’ll automatically encrypt your backed-up data so no one can read it, including Google.
> These changes will gradually roll out through the next year on Android and iOS, and you’ll receive a notification when this update comes to your account.
Can they please just encrypt it client side and store it setverside with some key known only to me? For example, encrypt it with a key unlockable with my login password.
All cloudy stuff should operate that way really, to maintain the users privacy expectation which is 'this data is only accessible to me, not my government'.
> If you’re getting a new phone or are worried about losing your existing one, you can always choose to back up your data to the cloud so it doesn’t get lost. We’ll automatically encrypt your backed-up data so no one can read it, including Google.
Is there a self hosted solution to aggregating and viewing this data?
I'm slowly moving away from Google and other companies clouds where I can. Would be nice to take this data out in takeout and explore it locally, but it's such a useful feature for looking back on my travels.
I use Arc, a paid app to track my location that stores this data on my device and only on my device. It has a good but not great UI to explore this on device, make corrections on transport types which are by default inferred by machine learning, mark and manage points of interest. The UI is somewhat complex so it's not the easiest to use, but it's easy enough after a while.
Since you explicitly mentioned moving away from Google, I'll note that the app has an opt-in integration with Google Places. You have to click a "Search Google Places" button to activate it so you won't accidentally use it.
It's self-hosted in the sense that it's just an app.
Thanks, I’ve been looking for something like this since forever. OwnTracks is the thing I previously heard about, but at the time it required you to set up your own mqtt server for data ingestion. I’d rather not have to maintain something like that.
I use OwnTracks. You don't need an MQTT broker (anymore?), though that is one of the options. A HTTP server works just fine, and there's an app (ot-recorder) that will handle saving your location history to disk.
Good. While privacy's great, I'm just happy it won't autosuggest an address of a store I looked up 11 years ago, taking me to the wrong side of city to some hipster consignment shop I barely recognize instead of the bar my friends are at.
I wonder if they'll implement a way to send the location history to the other devices of the same customer.
Furthermore I expect that there will a way to move that data to a new device, even a new phone replacing a dead one. It's one of the reasons to buy a new one, it happened to me 2 times out of 3 since I had modern smartphones.
The safest and most convenient way would be an encrypted backup to Google Drive (for Android, I don't know where for iOS,) with a password that only the user knows, different from the one of the Google account.
> If you’re getting a new phone or are worried about losing your existing one, you can always choose to back up your data to the cloud so it doesn’t get lost. We’ll automatically encrypt your backed-up data so no one can read it, including Google.
> If you’re getting a new phone or are worried about losing your existing one, you can always choose to back up your data to the cloud so it doesn’t get lost. We’ll automatically encrypt your backed-up data so no one can read it, including Google.
They no doubt do, but wholesale availability of data makes law enforcement’s sidestepping of the 4th amendment super easy. If they’re using home-grown tools, they’re at least ostensibly obliged to observe it.
See also data sent to supl.google.com (Android default).
> SUPL is used as part of the A-GPS (Assisted GPS) system to get a faster Time to First Fix. The problem is that Android's implementation automatically sends the IMSI (ID of the SIM card) to the SUPL provider for no apparent reason. And because Google is the default provider it's a big breach of privacy. [1]
You can mitigate it by cutting it down to three months of history. I also enabled enough privacy settings that they report long outdated home and work locations on the map.
Store location history remotely: this is just a scheme to invade privacy and hoover up user data.
Store location history locally: this is just a scheme to cut down on storage costs.
There's no winning here, is there? Personally, I'm a fan of Google never giving the option to store location history remotely and this is a step in the right direction.
Do you actually want them to store everywhere you've ever been on their servers because they would be using their storage instead? Because I don't, and I don't care to guess what the actual reason might be, because I'm just glad they don't want to do it anymore because it's better for everyone – removing remote storage removes a whole host of privacy issues.
Somehow I doubt that the company running a site that gets 8 hours of video uploaded every second is concerned about the storage size of a bunch of (lat,lon,time) tuples.
Map location data stored at, what, 1 minute granularity for the entire population of the world is...
You know, I'm not going to bother to flip over an envelope on this one. That's at least a million times smaller than Youtube daily traffic. And I might be short a few orders of magnitude.
