Not trying to hijack here. Just showing a bit of the other side of the coin, to those that may be interested. It's symbiotic. Without us, their ecosystem is shit, without them, our pretty hardware just wastes clock cycles.
To anyone considering a Systems Admin role, be aware, you have a lot of work ahead. SysAdmins are commonly generalists. We don't go super vertical in a lot of things, but we do go wider every day. There comes a point where it's really hard to keep up with the breadth of tech, UIs, concepts, some jackass's better mouse trap that isn't any better but uses a shit UI, etc.
Most SysAdmins pick a few things and specialize. Then there are the crazy people like me that try, and I emphasis try, to keep up with it all. smh.
Generalists are needed. We're usually the best at integration, since we've likely seen/worked on something with similar concepts or the systems involved, before. We usually sight read (borrowed term from music) UIs better than most and once we have enough time in, we realize that it's really all syntax. Whether its NTFS or CHMOD, we're still determining read, write, execute, modify, etc.
Both are rewarding and whichever you choose, remember, without the other half, you're mostly useless. ;)
Typically we start as Tier 1 support people. We answer calls, we solve issues. Tier 1 is where you "cut your teeth", learn the basics of general systems troubleshooting, and demonstrate customer service. CS is much more important than most think.
Once you have a year or 2 under your belt in environments that provide training wheels (not insulting, we all started somewhere and noobs need training wheels), you can move on to a higher support tier, or leave and go work for a non-IT company, in the IT role.
The next step is commonly small companies that only have the FTE budget for 1 technical emp, but need someone in-house. This person will spend their time addressing any and all issues for an entire small company, and farm out the things that require specialties.
This is a great learning experience, imo. You get to touch damn near everything, from firewalls, to PCs, to printers, etc.
After that, assuming you picked up the info, apply it well, deliver good customer service, etc. you have many more options.
As far as where to look?
I'd start with small computer companies (break/fix shops), MSPs or similar also often need more Tier 1s.
The jobs find you once you’ve worked on a huge range of different problems. Elect yourself next time some obscure problems comes up at work or school or whatever and keep doing that.
Jobs don't fall out of the sky, but generally, agreed.
I have 30+ years of IT in my resume. The skillset sheet is a whole 2nd page, by itself. This isn't because I'm Wile E. Coyote, Supre-genius, but after 30+ years, if you're not an moron, you pick up a wide variety of skills.
As a simple example of OSes I know or have worked in, to various levels, *nix, all versions of Windows, OS/2 WARP, Novell 3.x-5, Motorola AIX, SCO Unix, VAX VMS (just a touch), Cisco IOS, and many obscure IoT CLIs, like Microtik, Sophos XG, or more obscure stuff like the AT commands to open and close valves on an LCMS (an instrument used to analyze compounds) and I'm likely missing some.
As you may be able to tell, I started a long, long time ago, in a world where 110/300 bps access to another computer over phone lines was the internet and Compu-serve is where the chatrooms were. In fact, I still remember my compu-serve ID and password, not because it's useful, but the weirdest shit sticks sometimes.
For a lot of people starting their careers, this is probably close to the truth. For people like me (I’ve got all of those besides the pets, unless you consider fish), well… Yeah, you might want to consider a different path.
Author here, I have 4, soon to be 5 small kids, a full time job, church responsibilities, etc. This exploring and tinkering and learning doesn't have to take up a ton of time. 30 minutes a day can make a huge difference. I get quite a bit done while sitting with my kids while they fall asleep each night.
I also play tabletop and board games, watch TV with my wife each night, and even play Mario kart with my kids. There's plenty of time.
That said, my advice was primarily targeting recent graduates or young developers who are looking for a job. That implies they have plenty of time and are trying to put the bulk of it towards finding a job. If I were in that position, I'd treat building my resume and finding a job _as_ my full time job.
Yeah, to be fair my tone didn't come across great there, I'm being slightly sarcastic :)
I've got two young kids (youngest 4 months) and I spend pretty much all my free time either playing with them, cooking, cleaning and life admin. I've only recently started carving out time again to do plural sight courses etc at home. And to do that I'm having to reduce time lifting weights in the garage (which was only about 1.5 hours a week). In fact I should be doing a plural site course right now!
Honestly, if I were starting my career today, I'd choose a different career. I love being a developer, but the industry has changed significantly for the worse over the decades. Enough so that I don't recommend people enter it.
Same here. I didn’t even plan to go into the industry, but kinda just did it because it was the best (or only) option I could think of at the time. I had earlier plans, but they fell through and I was stuck. In retrospect, I could always shift over to doing software later on from something else if I wanted, but doing the opposite seems very limited.
Management. Chew up the grinders and spit them out when there is no flavor left. There's an endless supply; they extoll the virtues of the grind to the next generation, all the way until they've been spit out. But nobody listens to them once that's happened.
I hated how as a developer the requirements weren't understood, written down or changed weekly, completion was extremely hard to achieve, and I always ended up in crunch time redoing work (weekends and evenings). So I became a BA.
As a BA I hated how there was no communication regarding schedules or scope or active client management and everything ended up in crunch time. So I became a PM.
As a PM I got loaded down with too many projects to effectively manage and got no support from management. So I became a Development Manager.
As a development manager there was no support from senior management, good PM's were rare, developers were still getting abused (evening and weekends) and I had to pick up the slack. So I became a President.
As a president, I had to oversee ridiculous metrics and play financial games with shareholders that only cared for extracting as much money as possible from the company. And constantly try to straddle a line between looking out for myself or others, especially in terms of my own compensation (every dollar I take is 1 dollar less to retain talent or add to the team).
This sentiment gets expressed a lot on Hacker News, but I really wonder how many people saying this are actually familiar with these careers. I was the first person in my family to ever go to college. My dad, both grandfathers, all of my uncles, my brother-in-law, most of my cousins all worked or work in skilled trades. Aside from the physical demands which can and do tend to eventually beat you up (my dad's knees barely work at this point), sure, it's stable and reliable work, eventually, once you've become senior enough in your union. But it takes a while to get to that point, and it can be very hit or miss depending on where you live and local economic conditions. The GFC and Covid were both devastating. My brother-in-law got addicted to heroin and did a stint in prison, largely because his entire career field effectively disappeared in 2009 and 2010 when commercial construction just stopped happening everywhere in LA and Orange counties. Nothing to do that would pay him for two years.
And even at the senior end, unless you're a contractor owning your own business employing other skilled tradespeople, the money is still at best half what I earn to lay in bed all day typing on a laptop.
I've spent the last 20 years now in cushy, easy jobs giving away thousands of dollars at a time to the rest of my family because of the general unreliability of their income streams working in skilled trades.
Now imagine not even having a union. But yes, the level of delusion here, particularly around the pay for tradespeople, can be striking. I suspect they will encourage their own children to go to college and not pursue a trade (and I don't blame them for that).
Which works or doesn't work depending on where you are. You're not the son of that particular (local) biker gang's members or in favour with them? Sorry, no welding for you!
As a software person this sort of thing seldom comes to mind. What we also dismiss is all that professional association and certification stuff that we don't have to deal with. I don't know about you, but so far I still like the freedom and ability to move up and around we have better than being stuck working myself up from entry level through to a high paying job by waiting for someone else to retire or move up and out of the way first. Or you become a business owner, which in the plumbing and electrician business I guess is very common. But not everyone is cut out for that.
"You're not the son of that particular (local) biker gang's members or in favour with them? Sorry, no welding for you!"
That seems super local. I've got welder friends (and electrician friend, and plumber friends and my brother is a GC). I've lived in Texas, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Ontario.
I've never heard that biker gangs have a monopoly on welding jobs. And in my crazy 20s I dated a CC Riders ex-wife.
I'm not a welder so I can't tell you more. It's hearsay. I guess it's the same kind of super local / random thing as restaurant owners may have to deal with in order for their establishment to be "protected" :shrug:
Even if you’re in an area where $60k is decent, I’m not sure it’s as great as it sounds. I remember talking to an electrician turned Uber driver a couple years ago. He was making ok money, but with insane hours and in shitty environments. I don’t recall exactly what he said he wanted to do, but he was looking at getting out of the field. Anecdotally, I’ve heard similar stories from friends in nursing.
Maybe some individual plumbers are making hundreds of thousands of dollars, but they are an extreme outlier. The other question is how many hours are they working a week to make that much? I'm guessing you either have to work lots of overtime or be a business owner.
I have a lot of friends and family in the trade and the trucking industry. I made more than every single one of them and they all work more hours than me. The one friend I have that makes "almost $100k/year" works almost every weekend to make that.
I think a nationwide stat isn’t very useful because it ignores cost of living and the fact that most SWEs are concentrated in particular areas of the country. I think it’s very likely based on this data that software engineering just pays better in all or most regions, but this data is a bit skewed because of confounders.
The entire mindset of the industry has shifted to one of maximal monetary extraction rather than producing quality, useful products.
Everywhere I look, I see our industry engaging in practices that abuse others for profit. This applies to how we treat our customers, how we treat society, and even how we treat developers.
For a microcosm of the problem, look at how often comments here focus on being a developer in order to get rich rather than being a developer in order to do great things.
Maybe you are looking everywhere but the wrong places. There's never been a better time to work in software if you care about FOSS, accessibility, companies with purpose other than profit etc. If you surround yourself with money oriented peers, of course that's all you'll see.
With the exception of two companies I started myself, my whole career has been B2B companies, and there are many good ones (almost exclusively companies which use software, but aren't software companies).
But pure software companies? Even B2B ones are increasingly abusive -- they just tend to abuse their employees rather than customers.
Note that I'm certainly not saying that all companies are like this. But the trendline for it is clear to me: it's getting more common as time goes on. That's why I would avoid this industry if I were at the start of my career. I think things are going to get much worse before they get better.
To anyone considering a Systems Admin role, be aware, you have a lot of work ahead. SysAdmins are commonly generalists. We don't go super vertical in a lot of things, but we do go wider every day. There comes a point where it's really hard to keep up with the breadth of tech, UIs, concepts, some jackass's better mouse trap that isn't any better but uses a shit UI, etc.
Most SysAdmins pick a few things and specialize. Then there are the crazy people like me that try, and I emphasis try, to keep up with it all. smh.
Generalists are needed. We're usually the best at integration, since we've likely seen/worked on something with similar concepts or the systems involved, before. We usually sight read (borrowed term from music) UIs better than most and once we have enough time in, we realize that it's really all syntax. Whether its NTFS or CHMOD, we're still determining read, write, execute, modify, etc.
Both are rewarding and whichever you choose, remember, without the other half, you're mostly useless. ;)
o7 Coders!