> African Americans commit about half the murders in the US
not disagreeing, but you've also committed the statistical cardinal sin of survivorship bias here as well. It's not half the murders, it's half the _prosecuted_ murders. You don't know how many are not caught or known.
And you left out another major issue. It's half of the homicides convicted as murders. People pleading guilty to negligent homicide or claiming self defense (or simply winning their case) aren't included. Which are outcomes associated with good lawyers, which is associated with wealth, which is highly correlated to race.
The clearance rate for black victims of murder in black neighborhoods (where the perpetrator is likely to also be black) is the lowest out of all categories, which makes your point actually work against you
Unknown would be its own category, which means some of those unknown might actually make the African American stats even worse if they were attributed.
And it is imho better for 9 murderers to walk free and prevent 1 wrongful conviction, than to have 1 wrongful conviction to keep 9 murderers off the streets.
Did you really just post an inflammatory, unsourced, incomplete statistic, then when someone points out that all the other correlations you didn't, you say "who cares" ?
He was talking about the cause. I never mentioned the cause. I said which group. I never said what causes that group to do it. It surely isn't wealth or education.. eastern Europe has been poor and no one kills for a pair of fancy shoes.
He was talking about the cause. I never mentioned the cause.
This is a lie, you insinuated the cause and now are pretending you didn't. This is a common dog whistle by extremists.
I never said what causes that group to do it. It surely isn't wealth or education
Now you are directly saying it and basing it on nothing. Being a poorer country overall has nothing to do with anything. There are many other countries that contradict your narrative.
no one kills for a pair of fancy shoes
This is another racist dog whistle and has nothing to do with reality.
If you aren't doing these things on purpose you should reevaluate what you accept as true and look into these assumptions you hold.
Have you considered actually answering why poor polish people didn't kill each other for shoes, instead of saying it's a dog whistle to mention it? You don't add anything besides labeling things randomly. What you're doing doesn't work anymore.
Nobody kills each other for shoes. This is a racist dog whistle you are repeating over and over. It is not backed up by anything. You wrote it multiple times and you haven't even explained why you think that's true.
It isn't someone else's job to prove your claims for you. You don't get to say something outlandish then get mad at the other person for 'not googling it'.
You searching for something specific and finding it has nothing to do with statistics. You moved to finding specific news articles with the title you wanted. That would be like me saying that a lot of polish people are serial killers:
I would never blame it ON the skin color. That would make zero sense.i don't get more prone to murder when I get a tan. But you can't say it's just from being poor. Poor Eastern Europeans don't murder each other for a pain of shoes. Something is going on in the culture of the African American community. I'm not sure what happened in the last 50+ years, but home ownership and marriage rates are WAY down in the African American community compared to 50 years ago and it's causing a lot of problems.
Edit: I can't even believe you said I blamed it on skin color. I talked about what the group is doing, not what is making the group do it. Amazing people miss this
> I can't even believe you said I blamed it on skin color
Unless you believe yourself to speak for America, I very clearly didn't say that.
> I'm not sure what happened in the last 50+ years,
Institutional racism, drug wars, three strike laws, mandatory minimum sentencing, relentless propaganda and demonization, underfunded schools, leaders smeared and assassinated, etc etc etc.
And now you, you specifically, are blaming it on "their culture" and acting like it's a big mystery. Ugh.
All of those things plausibly lead to cultural differences. How else do you get from those things to “elevated homicide rates” without traversing “culture”? Feels like you’re violently agreeing.
I'd call it 'violence' when you assassinate leaders, throw fathers in jail for non violent drug offenses as deliberate racist policy, etc, and then stir people up against those with darker skin tone because of "math" that was stripped of all context.
This thread is giving me a headache. Feels like when thedonald would raid subs back in 2016.
For what it’s worth, “violent agreement” is a specific concept—it just means using an argumentative tone when they seem to be agreeing. I’m not actually suggesting you were behaving violently.
I agree that your additional context is important, but it has opened almost every single conversation about race in America for the last 10-30 years. At a certain point, it would be good if we could advanced beyond it because absent the verboten cultural aspect it’s difficult to imagine how these things (particularly those which were officially ended decades ago, like the overwhelming majority of our racist policies) are manifesting as population-level differences in behavior apart from culture. For what it’s worth, we should absolutely release nonviolent drug offenders and repeal any remaining racist laws, but I don’t think anyone is expecting those things alone to solve crime in black communities. Refusing to look at it and shouting “racist” at anyone who does certainly hasn’t worked so far.
> At a certain point, it would be good if we could advanced beyond it
It sure would; but if you can't call out literal white supremacist talking points then that's gonna be pretty hard to do.
> Refusing to look at it and shouting “racist” at anyone who does certainly hasn’t worked so far.
I didn't do that, so I don't know why you're bringing it up. There are literal racists toxicing up this thread, deliberately, so it's weird you'd focus your debate on the people adding the context which "has opened almost every single conversation about race in America for the last 10-30 years" yet is still somehow necessary to say.
> I didn't do that, so I don't know why you're bringing it up
I'm not trying to mischaracterize you, but I'm pretty sure you used "literal white supremacist talking point" to refer to the parent's suggestion that culture seems to play a role in disparities.
> so it's weird you'd focus your debate on the people adding the context ... yet is still somehow necessary to say.
My debate wasn't focused on you adding this context, my argument is that critiquing culture is a valid thing to do. I never argued that you oughtn't add context, only that omitting the context (as it is common sense) isn't proof of racism in the same way that not opening a conversation with a treatise on gravity doesn't make one 'anti-science'. I'm trying to read and respond to your comments carefully so as to not accidentally argue against straw men--please afford me the same courtesy.
Got to be honest, HN is the last place I expected to read the 12% line in. Hope this triggers some moderation inquiries to make sure it does not evolve into something worse.
This community's politics competency is pretty all over the map.
Competency in technical areas and competency in politics or history aren't strongly correlated. Watching the technorati running the FAANG-tier companies of the world fall on their faces over and over on these topics is a strong indicator that it isn't an issue limited to this community.
You're calling people white supremacists just because they make some of the same points white supremacists do. White supremacists also love orang juice! Are you one also? Why do you drink fruit juice???
