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I'd love to know the numbers on this. How many crashes with advanced drivers enabled are there and how many miles of driving have they done?



They might be mislead by articles like this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/15/business/self-driving-car...

Where in the first few paragraphs it gives the impression Tesla has 5:1 deaths, but later you learn that they are including simple lane keeping and cruise control in the comparison, and

> None of the cars using the automated systems were involved in fatal accidents


None of the cars using the automated systems were involved in fatal accidents

If you mean Tesla, that is definitely false. Mostly famously, the Bay Area crash where autopilot was conveniently disabled seconds before the car crashed into a barrier, killing the driver. In the aftermath, the driver's family, and other Tesla drivers noted that a recent update to FSD had caused a regression, whereby Teslas would swerve toward the divider instead of away from it.

simple lane keeping and cruise control in the comparison

Some of Tesla AP's worst fatalities are instances where the car was just replicating simple lane keeping functionality and yet the car still crashed into a big rig or emergency vehicle the Tesla didn't see but which any other carmaker's system would have seen.

Notably, in instances where the Tesla was at fault Musk refuses to discuss the accident, even though he otherwise has no issues releasing information about the driver when the driver is at fault. It's telling that Musk rarely (but still) does this, which means that every time he doesn't it's very strong circumstantial evidence that the car was at fault.

At some point you need to stop making excuses for Tesla's atrocious safety practices and abysmal safety record and just except that they're fundamentally dangerous cars.


It's a review of a particular 10-month dataset. I'm making a comment about the framing of the article vs reality which might lead to misleading conclusions. Not claiming that Tesla (or any automated driving system) has never had fatal crashes, which is obviously not the case.

You said that "the entire rest of the auto industry, worldwide has fewer advanced driver deaths than Tesla, despite millions more cars on the road", what are your sources for that? Do you have numbers on non-Tesla L2 cars on the road to compare?




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