> you gotta love Mac users and their cultural bubble
I've been using Windows for ~10, Linux for ~20, and Mac for 4 years. I've also worked on my own toy terminal emulator and shell. I believe that good design should be recognised for what it is, regardless of branding, and learned from to improve different aspects of the tools we build and use.
I would very much appreciate it if we could continue this conversation without assuming bias or ignorance.
> these are non standard keybindings for a Unix shell
The shell can't interpret Cmd, which is exactly my point. The terminal emulator is able to provide functionality that the shell alone can't (unless the shell takes on some part of the terminal's duties, a la tmux).
> Apple is [...] teaching you the wrong way to do stuff.
What is the correct way to copy text from a terminal then?
I just want to copy text back & forth between a terminal and a browser. I don't want to memorise two different sets of keybindings to perform the same action. I don't care if copy is Ctrl-Shift-C, or Win-CapsLock-2, I just want the key bindings to remain consistent, to reduce mental fatigue.
> When I'm in VSCode the left mouse click doesn't shoot at anything...
If I'd open Counter Strike in VS Code (100% possible, see TFA), then I would 100% expect left click to shoot.
On the other hand, I've had to rebind some of my StarCraft II hotkeys to make them work on Windows, because normally I use Alt+[F1-F4] for setting up camera hotkeys and... Alt-F4 does something special on Windows, that the game can't ignore.
> I believe that good design should be recognised for what it is, regardless of branding
I am not at all influenced by the brand.
Windows key was a mistake too IMO (that are two BTW! one emulates the right mouse click).
ALT+space was a perfectly fine combo to press with one thumb (especially on laptop keyboards) to open a menu or the app launcher.
They add nothing to the table, it's just another modifier, they are both seriously inferior to function keys, that Mac tried so hard to remove and failed, because a touchbar sucks compared to a physical key.
Just simple plain HMI since Engelbart proved what computers could do.
> I would very much appreciate it if we could continue this conversation without assuming bias or ignorance.
Being a user and being knowledgeable of what constitute a good input interface are two different things.
If you ask people right now they will say touch screens are great, but they are wrong, physical keys are better, we have senses, if we don't use them, we are artificially making us disabled.
Which is never great.
Devices should enhance our capabilities, not cripple them.
Having to remember hundreds of arcane key combos, spread over 10 modifiers it's the exact opposite of good design.
That's why we invented CUA.
> What is the correct way to copy text from a terminal then?
if mouse is enabled
select with LEFT mouse clicked, paste with MIDDLE mouse click
otherwise
ALT+insert SHIFT+insert
that's legacy though, I agree if you are thinking it, but it's out of necessity, not out of will, that it is better to know what works everywhere.
knowing basic vi will enable you to edit text files everywhere on Unix, Emacs not really, Joe? let's hope it's Linux.
> I just want the key bindings to remain consistent, to reduce mental fatigue.
that's exactly why having CMD, CTRL, OPTION (that everybody else call ALT!) is a bad idea.
Apple is so innovative that they can't let go their original keyboard from 40 years ago.
At least back then the Apple key was the Apple logo, it had a branding purpose.
> If I'd open Counter Strike in VS Code (100% possible, see TFA), then I would 100% expect left click to shoot.
of course. because in that case you would be running CS inside VSCode.
but VSCode could disable overriding what the left click does if they wanted to.
Yep, but the Lisa isn't a Mac, which is the system under discussion. The Mac has the same keyboard it has always had, though the adding of the 'command' notation directly on the key is more recent.
Interestingly the Apple III was the first Apple computer with a command/Apple key, which then subsequently appeared on the IIe/IIc/IIIgs so that is the true origin.
NeXT also adopted the command key, which I'm sure was handy when it's OS was adapted into OS X.
I've been using Windows for ~10, Linux for ~20, and Mac for 4 years. I've also worked on my own toy terminal emulator and shell. I believe that good design should be recognised for what it is, regardless of branding, and learned from to improve different aspects of the tools we build and use.
I would very much appreciate it if we could continue this conversation without assuming bias or ignorance.
> these are non standard keybindings for a Unix shell
The shell can't interpret Cmd, which is exactly my point. The terminal emulator is able to provide functionality that the shell alone can't (unless the shell takes on some part of the terminal's duties, a la tmux).
> Apple is [...] teaching you the wrong way to do stuff.
What is the correct way to copy text from a terminal then?
I just want to copy text back & forth between a terminal and a browser. I don't want to memorise two different sets of keybindings to perform the same action. I don't care if copy is Ctrl-Shift-C, or Win-CapsLock-2, I just want the key bindings to remain consistent, to reduce mental fatigue.
> When I'm in VSCode the left mouse click doesn't shoot at anything...
If I'd open Counter Strike in VS Code (100% possible, see TFA), then I would 100% expect left click to shoot.
On the other hand, I've had to rebind some of my StarCraft II hotkeys to make them work on Windows, because normally I use Alt+[F1-F4] for setting up camera hotkeys and... Alt-F4 does something special on Windows, that the game can't ignore.