It would be great if they could publish their salary bands. If you are advertising jobs to Washington State residents, by law, need to publish salary bands. This seems to be not compliant with our law.
It's becoming more common to see footnotes in adverts like that in general.
As an example, Discogs.com [0] explictly states the states where you can remote from. "This is a remote position. Open to candidates located in OR, WA, CA, CO, ID, AZ, TX, IL"
In this case, the employer incurs cost in every state they create a nexus, and so yes, there is a limitation. My company uses a PEO that is able to employ people in every state, so we don't have this limitation, but the cost to carry an employee varies a lot from state to state... and that is before considering difference in local pay rates.
And companies that do that will soon realize that cutting off the three states with the highest concentration of qualified tech workers isn't a winning strategy.
Keep in mind that the companies listed on that website are hiring globally.
By not disclosing a salary range these companies would only cut off three states of ONE country.
Also, I'm pretty sure that if most of these companies disclosed the salary range it wouldn't be interesting for people living in the states in question.
What seems like an entry level salary for people in California, Washington, New York or Colorado is actually a great salary in pretty much 90% of the world. It shouldn't be a surprise that there are companies which decide to draw from the talent pool of this other 90% of the world.
Of course, it would still be nice if all companies started disclosing the salary range. I'd just be a bit more careful with strong statements like "this isn't a winning strategy" when talking about 4 states of one country in the context of the entire world.
I have hired a lot of people and for key hires above a certain level, existing tech hubs (SV, Seattle, NYC, Denver) account for a vast majority of the available candidate pool. There are a few other hubs beyond these (London, Singapore, Bangalore) but you are constraining yourself massively.
I would say for roles in senior management (Directors, VPs) and senior engineering (Tech lead, Chief Architect).
> I would think there are plenty of experienced people all over the world.
Unfortunately, no. Until 2020, remote work was rare so to grow into a senior role, ambitious and talented people had to move to various hubs. That created a feedback loop with all the senior talent flocking to major tech hubs. Now you will find only a tiny proportion of senior talent in non-hub locations.
So if you cut off major US tech hubs (SV, NYC, Seattle, Denver) from your hiring pipeline, you are cutting off a majority of your prospective senior hires.
Actually, it's fine. There's plenty of qualified tech workers everywhere else, and each of the three states listed creates huge burdens, either financially or bureaucratically for out of state employers.
In theory the website is advertising jobs to people in every labor market on earth. Since there is a huge variety of labor laws out there, I'm guessing the website violates many many laws.
Commerce on The Internet is being slowly ruined by minor fiefdoms who have strong opinions about how everyone else should behave. Like NY trying to tax out of state remote workers. What a nightmare.
I live in another state with a similar law and it has negatively impacted my job and earning prospects in remote work.
wheres the line between a job board and an aggregator?
As far as I can tell this just links through to the actual job postings, which may or may not be compliant.
It will be an interesting transition period. I remember job ads telling Colorado residents they need not apply, but if you emailed them I bet it would have been fine.
> (3) If no wage scale or salary range exists, the employer must provide the minimum wage or salary expectation set by the employer prior to posting the position, making a position transfer, or making the promotion.
Since aggregators aren't "job postings", I am guessing at least for WA, the website is compliant, but if you click through to the job postings, then the salary range is not published there either [0]. Should an aggregator be allowed to publish illegal job postings?
Should residents of states where the linked job posting is non-conformant assume that the job posting is not targeted at them, otherwise the job poster would have complied?
After all, the job listing said nothing about Washington state.
If nobody in the company is working in Colorado, they can probably more easily justify excluding Colorado residents, and thus not have to conform to the salary posting requirements.
Out of curiosity, how do you get paid, if you don't mind sharing? As the owner of a company, I can barely figure out how to legally pay people just in the USA, and every new state is a new headache. I can't even imagine trying to pay people across the world. And I'm already using 3rd party (Gusto) to manage it. But they don't do all the details like setting up your corporate entity in each place.
Greek here, we (a non-profit with 20+ employees and several contractors) are able to pay local people. Sometimes we hire contractors (people or companies) fron other European Union countries (mostly Germany and Spain). We would love to figure ways to pay people but it seems very complicated to do it ourselves.
Aren't there multiple companies (I don't want to promote any) doing just that: being intermediaries with corporate entities everywhere to enable other companies to hire locally?
Not OP, but I also work in a remote company. Our company uses deel.com. You only need to set up a corporate entity when the number of employees exceed a certain limit IIRC. When that happens, yes it's a bit of a hassle.
Another suggestion is to use the "tech"/skills or programming languages as a filter. Really helpful, and also understandable that majority of jobs would require the popular programming languages/tools.
Might want to be careful entering into an employment contract if the other party is located in a country your government doesnt legally allow doing business with.
However, they were all classified as hiring in the US only. The reason is that the location is listed as "Remote". I used to classify "Remote" as "Anywhere in the world", however I found that many US companies tend to list the location as "Remote" but are only hiring for people based in the US (Companies in other countries will always include the country in the location field e.g. "Remote - UK"). Hence now I only classify the hiring location as "Worldwide" if the location field includes phrases such as "Worldwide" or "Anywhere in the world" etc.
Just a heads up, on my iPhone, when I scroll to the All Remote heading and stop (on your first link), I get a wild flicker as the page tries to scroll back and forth rapidly. Just thought I’d let you know.
Sorry for the glitchy scrolling issue on our handbook, thank you both for re-raising this, and thank you @niel for the PR (https://github.com/sourcegraph/handbook/pull/6080). I confirmed that the PR fixed it, and I just merged the PR.
Yeah the current "remote" really really sucks and sounds like snake-oil. It also give wrong stat when reading online comments. Many people that said it's easy for them often came from people live in the same city and country as those companies. "Remote" by default gives an impression that's it's global.
"Should" is a loaded word that I won't address, but commonly "work from home" is the term used when you're still located near the office, vs. "remote" which is where you're nowhere near an office.
It's not about being close to the office. For many teams it's about being in similar timezones. Companies hiring along the NA west coast for instance is pretty common and makes sense if you want people to collaborate closely.
Because that's been the sentiment. From the era it was popularized by Remote book (office not required), and then there's discussion around location adjusted salary (e.g. gitlab). As far as I know Basecamp still pays roughly same rates everywhere (location independent). Employer of Record like Deel.com or Remote.com exists for making global hire easier.
I don't think I actually answer "why should" .. but that's not what I say anyway.
Unfortunately, getting less and less true by the day. When I first used internet, it was truly global, anything someone else could access, I could as well.
Nowadays, I'm finding more and more geoblocks everywhere. Sometimes I cannot access a website because apparently "a lot of internet criminals are also from the country you are accessing our website from, so you're collateral damage".
The geoblock is just an indicator that it's becoming more and more global, with more users. Who are the bad actors here? The "copyright lobby", the "scammers", or is it the vendors making and selling these draconian fencing tools?
Blocking someone because of their geographical location would mean (to me) that it's becoming "more localized", not "more global". Before I could access websites everywhere, now I cannot.
It's not snake oil, there's literally tax issues and legal problems with having employees located overseas. If you hire employees in another country, you have to pay taxes or comply with a slew of different regulations your company is not familiar with or equipped to handle.
The YC company I work at (and have been happy working at for the last 11 years) is hiring remotely, anywhere in the time zones of Americas, Europe, and Africa: https://jobs.close.com
Hey, do you have an employee referral program? If so, can you refer me? Would love to apply, however I know employee referrals gets one a foot in the interview door quickly.
Probably "we hire from anywhere in the world, but for this position because of coverage reasons we would prefer somebody from these time zones". The other regions that are usually used alongside EMEA are LATAM ("the Americas") and APAC (roughly Asia and the Pacific islands).
Do they hire you as employees or as contractors? I would assume the latter as unless they already have a nexus in your country there’s a whole lotta hassle for a single employee. Or is it, say, eu hiring within the eu, etc?
Many of them hire you as a contractor, of course. However, I noticed that more and more companies use an "HR as a service" (e.g. deel.com) to act as an intermediary who has an official branch in most countries and takes care of all the formalities for you.
In that case you’re working for deel and deel is contracting you out to the hiring company.
Companies can fire you/lay you off without even any of the mediocre protections you get under US law.
I’m not sure how deel handles this situation with employees in countries with stricter worker protections. Do they require the company to pay severance, do they include that in their fees?
I suspect that they are operating in a gray area because no one is really looking.
> I’m not sure how deel handles this situation with employees in countries with stricter worker protections. Do they require the company to pay severance, do they include that in their fees?
We hired engineers in Mexico through Deel and were required to provide the mandatory severance up front (I forgot the exact amount but I think it was like 3 months salary?).
That money sat in an escrow account until we let go of the employees at which point we still had to follow all of the local labor laws which I believe also meant that every severance needed to be individually negotiated.
Deel handled all the mechanics but we still had to follow the process (meaning that the time between deciding to lay people off and actually being able to do it was a month if I recall correctly).
For what it's worth the experience convinced me to stick to traditional contracting companies for my remote engineers. Deel is probably a better fit for a company looking to transition to having a full time headquarters and business set up in that country rather than one that wants to just leverage the global pool of engineers.
That sounds like lawsuits waiting to happen for Deel and/or their customers. Either people are employees of Deel or they are your employees, Deel can't have their cake and eat it, too.
It's pretty close to working with a local software house receiving works (customers) from the U.S. and operate team as "project base". Except you can't rotate into projects across companies and get paid about +30-40% of local market rates.
I move between countries. Anyone happen to know how this works for this situation? (i.e. I'm currently in Mexico, but next week I'll be in Guatemala. Does Deel cope with this, and if so how?)
Not really. I left Germany last year. As I wasn't a citizen and I'm not now a resident, I'm not a tax resident of Germany. Edit: clarification: I specifically de-registered with the German tax system, as required by German law. And to establish a new residency, I would have to live more than 180 days in that country, which I haven't yet.
I have multiple citizenships, so I'm not automatically a tax resident of a country I'm a citizen of.
Unless the us is one of those citizenships which mandates filing. And I suspect that if you dodge tax residency by avoiding 180 days anywhere I figure you’re at risk to any border agent with a sore ass having a bad day.
I'm not "dodging tax residency" - I'm legitimately travelling.
There's a lot of discussion on this in the digital nomad community. You literally can't register as a tax resident without spending at least 180 days in a country, for most countries. And yes, some tax authorities get a bit strange about people not having a tax residency for an extended period, but we're just following the rules.
The US is different because of the Federal/State tax split, and Federal taxes don't depend on residency. Not many other countries have this split.
Australia (one of my citizenships) is moving towards having to file tax returns even if not resident, but afaik it's not there yet.
I’m moving locations a lot myself too. I’ve found deel / remote is not great because it tethers you to the country you started in.
For my situation setting up my own us llc and contracting/consulting through it means I can move around. Also the us llc onboards cleanly for any companies using gusto and for others I send a W9 that they know how to handle.
How does "payment in USD" work, if I am not from the US? If the exchange value drops, I cannot pay rent? Everyone should probably get the employer to offer a currency-hedged payment, the fee is not that high.
If you live in a country with that volatile currency, then chances are even miserable by 1st world standards remote salary in USD is rudiculuosly higher than local market, and you are rich anyways. And it usually goes the opposite direction, i.e. local currency get cheaper over time, thus you are becoming "richier". Trust me, payments in stable convertible currency is a huge deal for many-many people outside of US
I've done a lot of remote work, mostly "in" EU/USA, and it's totally up to what you are agree upon. Normally, at least for longer contracts, it's normal to get paid in the employer's currency, upon pay day that value is transferred to your bank account, and some place on the way it's converted to your currency based on the current exchange rate.
But you can also invoice the company you are working for, and then do the same in reverse, except it's usually you who do the conversion on the day you invoice them.
For long contracts, more than 6 months, I would definitely take into account the exchange rate. For shorter contracts, I wouldn't care. I'm from Norway, and none of the currencies I have worked "with" changes dramatically.
I don't live in the US, I'm paid in dollars. My landlord gave me a discount because I was able to pay in dollars. Having a dollar is better than having my country's funny money.
Maybe this is only an issue if you live in the EU or UK where dollars aren't as highly sought.
That's the risk of getting paid in a foreign currency. It's for you to decide if it is worth it, and usually you do it because the pay is significantly higher than your local market.
Additionally to the silbling comments - if the employer only offers USD payment, virtually all banks will offer some financial product to hedge against currency risk. This comes at a price, of course, but presumably the employer pays well enough that it's still worth it.
I was thinking about foreign exchange options [0], which buy you the right to exchange some amount of money (your salary) at a given some later date (payday) with a fixed exchange rate. You‘d buy one for every paycheck within the period you want to insure against the risk.
(I realize now that I‘m not actually sure how easy it is to get them as a consumer at a bank - alternatively you might be able to get them via Robinhood or similar.)
It's up to employee. I had a FCD bank account (store dollar) and convert into local currency when I got a good rate. Though later on I just don't care much, Wise's rates is acceptable and I convert it into local bank account ASAP.
Can you tell me about how a hedging solution works when a nobody knows if the person will be working for the company for 2 months or 5 years? Is the salary to be renegotiated if the rate moves too much?
