Except that the DOE loan was for 465m. If they lost 1.7m in the quarter then the DOE loan wouldn't even be 1 month of operations. Even with inflation, the loan they received wouldn't touch the losses rivian has been having.
I do love their trucks and hope they succeed though
I know it’s a lot to ask of the general populace, but self-reflection is key here. I’m smart and confident. But I know that I would be a terrible person to give a $465m loan to.
Money is our economy’s way of rewarding those of us with outsized skills. It’s far from perfect, but it’s the best we’ve got. Is Tesla and Elon the best place to put that $465m? Maybe, maybe not. But it was the best we had at the time, and I certainly don’t see anyone better than him now.
That is indeed a lot to ask of the general populace.
But I don’t think even a majority of the populace had an issue with it anyway - it’s always the fringe extremists that get most of the press, they tend to be a lot more quotable than the ‘meh, I guess that’s fine’ folks.
GM and Chrysler needed them to stay alive. Other companies (including some banks) just took them because why not, the future was uncertain. It turns out Tesla didn't actually need the loan so they paid it back early.
Because at the time (2009 ish) auto companies were all getting bailout "loans" and many of them from the major auto corps were not paid back. Tesla got a fraction of what they did, and paid it back 9 years early and with interest.
See: PPP program, a near-trillion dollars of "Loans" that were not paid back.
Why isn't the numerous instances of federal bailouts in thousands of other companies NOT a talking point if Tesla's is? Savings and Loans, Mortgage crisis, airlines, etc.
If you don't think having a premier EV manufacturer in the US when the Chinese are otherwise poised for total domination of the sector isn't an economic national security issue, then I don't know what to tell you.
The PPP was multi-trillion, not near-trillion. And yes, there were a lot of issues with the PPP. That seems to have been fairly unique (thank goodness)
The other federal bailouts aren't talked about often on HN, because they are not tech companies. And most of those conversations feature the talking point "they paid back the loan" as well. I have no idea why it's important.
I'm fine with the government subsidizing EV manufacturing industries. That's not the question. The question is "why is it important they paid the loan back?"
Its not so much that they paid them back, but that they paid them almost 10 years ago. That wasn't because they had tons of money, that was because the loan wasn't worth the problems it was causing.
Most of the time that the DOE loan is brought up, the context is the implication that Tesla and SpaceX are parasites that only survive on taxpayer bailouts. So "they paid the loan back" is a pre-emptive counter-strike against that narrative. Probably unnecessary in this case.
Another note about Rivian's later arrival to market is that it will have a harder time selling regulatory credits to other automakers. This profit center is decreasing over time but has averaged about 300M/Q. This is far from making up a 1.7B loss, but shows how Rivian doesn't have some of the first mover tailwinds.
Additionally, while Rivian is a premium vehicle and may presumably attract a substantial number of cash buyers, increases in interest rates can't help sales.
