Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

For reference, here's the comment that was deemed sufficient grounds to be desysopped.

> # '''Oppose.''' I think the domination of Wikipedia's woman niche, for lack of a better term, by males masquerading as females as opposed to welcoming actual, genuine, real women who were born and have always been female, is highly toxic. Go ahead, "cancel" me, I don't care. – [[User:Athaenara|Athaenara]] [[User talk:Athaenara| ]] 00:44, 11 October 2022 (UTC)




The important context here is that this is a direct reply to a trans person's application to become an admin on Wikipedia. In other words, they're not objecting to trans ideology or something, they're specifically telling a Wikipedian that they can't be an admin because they're trans.


Except the debate on the ban (which is what I was referring to - the reply itself is pretty much indefensible) became a referendum on ideology rather than a legitimate discussion on a ban due to a harmful action.


[flagged]


Indeed, she is one of many women who are completely fed up of being talked over on women's issues by men who identify as women.

It wasn't really the appropriate forum for her outburst, but I think many of us can empathise with the sentiment she was expressing. The subsequent overreaction to her comment kind of proved her point too.


This is really common all over the internet, not just wikipedia.

Look who's actually dominating the reddit sub "actuallesbians": https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/actualles...


this is pretty fascinating to me, i thought the whole point of wikipedia was if you see something wrong you hit edit, fix it, and then click save. If you want to add something new the process is the same. Do you now have to pass like a virtual interview to qualify to make a change?


There are power users with more privileges like being able to lock controversial articles, revert defaced articles, and stuff. Those people apply for the position.


>males masquerading as females

Trans people are not masquerading as another gender.


I think she using "male" and "female" to refer to sex. In which case, this would be a true statement, regardless of one's opinion on the validity of 'gender identity' as a concept.


You are still missing the point. Trans people living their real gender don't masquerade, it's the opposite.


Isn't the purpose of the hormone treatments, surgeries, etc. so that someone of the male sex can appear as if the female sex, or vice versa?


Kinda. It's different for different people. Many trans women take hormones hoping they'll help them look like a typical gender-conforming cisgender woman.

One other really common reason is that they are deeply upset by and experience dysphoria due to the effects of masculine puberty, and use hormones and surgery to match their body to how they feel it should be. It helps them feel comfortable in their own skin.

I saw a comic from a trans woman once who had recently started hormones, who noticed she had a miserable mood for a few days every couple of weeks for no apparent reason. She marked them on her calendar and found that it was always the couple of days before her HRT shots. She switched from shots every 14 days to every 10 days, and that fixed it up. So it seems that for trans people, HRT isn't just cosmetic, but has a direct effect on mental well-being that's independent of any noticed physical changes.


But not as a masquerade but to align the outer to the inner.


"male" and "female" refer to sex, not gender


Unless they're used in a discussion specifically about human biology, "male" and "female" can be assumed to refer to gender. The terminology isn't neatly separated, unfortunately.


Are you sure? My impression from common usage is the opposite. It's normally referring to biology, except under certain circumstances.


It depends on context. A discussion about "female singers" would probably be referring to gender.

It's useful to have an adjective equivalent of "man" and "woman", so people use "male" and "female" to mean that. My main point isn't to establish one meaning as more common, but to point out that there's not one "correct" meaning. Terminology around sex and gender are not neatly divided and it's not always easily determined what meaning people are using.


> In humans, the word female can also be used to refer to gender.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female



> Male is the sex of an organism that produces the gamete (sex cell) known as sperm, which fuses with the larger female gamete, or ovum, in the process of fertilization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male

> Female is the sex of an organism that produces the large non-motile ova (egg cells), the type of gamete (sex cell) that fuses with the male gamete during sexual reproduction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female


From your links

>In humans, the word male can also be used to refer to gender.

>In humans, the word female can also be used to refer to gender.


A male with some pills and makeup doesn't become a female.


The emperor's new dress doesn't make him a woman.


Isn't being female due to your sex at birth and not your identifying gender?


It's the same as saying a tomato is a fruit. Words have contextual meanings. Not that I'm a fan, I like things more defined.



This is BS.


What an elaborate argument.

>In humans, the word female can also be used to refer to gender

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female

>In humans, the word male can also be used to refer to gender.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: