Thank you for your pushback, seriously. This "us vs them" mentality, especially applied to PMs, is outright toxic and counterproductive.
I was blessed to be able to build a team of developers who understand business value and prioritise accordingly, who like building things for others and not just a shrine to their intellect [1], and I wouldn't want to have it any other way. It's amazing to work in a team where most challenges are product and market challenges, and the rest is just pragmatic technical considerations. The world people describe in this thread sounds like a self-perpetuating hellhole.
[1] although arguably it's much harder to build something simple but good enough and compatible with future changes
"I hate this 'us vs them' mentality, but I need to keep my developers in check and make sure they prioritise business value accordingly"
Is exactly the kind of paternalistic nonsense that developers have to endure.
PMs exist to shield us from the shit. I work with a great one who does this, trusts the team and lets us get on with it without introducing ridiculous process, but the vast, vast majority of PMs I've had to work with are utter garbage.
What do you mean "keep in check"? In my experience people caring about the product and value that it brings to the world and having real visible impact on it don't need "keeping in check". It is important to screen for that during interviews, yes, and it won't work in feature factories and bullshit adtech that no one actually cares about, but when it's smart people in a small team working on something generally good for the world it just happens on its own. There is nothing paternalistic about it.
Maybe when it's a large dysfunctional org, yes. Ideally PMs exist to facilitate, not to "shield".
I was blessed to be able to build a team of developers who understand business value and prioritise accordingly, who like building things for others and not just a shrine to their intellect [1], and I wouldn't want to have it any other way. It's amazing to work in a team where most challenges are product and market challenges, and the rest is just pragmatic technical considerations. The world people describe in this thread sounds like a self-perpetuating hellhole.
[1] although arguably it's much harder to build something simple but good enough and compatible with future changes