I guess I attributed to "dude" what I see more people doing with "actor", an implication that changing the word itself (to dudette, or dudesse, I suppose) is more offensive than using a single term for a single idea that, itself, doesn't need to be gendered. Actually a quick Googling of "dude gender neutral" tells me dude's gender-neutral usage goes back to the 1970s, and has been written on some.
I certainly don't think women would want to be called "programmerettes" or "programmeresses" en masse. And I'm too afraid to Google those.
As to the points I was trying to make, my intent was to say that yes, I believe it absolutely would drive off more women than men by appealing to a culture that is male-dominant. But I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that it was done with the explicit intent of establishing a "no girls allowed" company. I do think those guys should've been more thoughtful about who they were appealing to, and I'm glad MattManser brought it to our attention; it's an interesting read. But I'm not as quick to call them sexist assholes. For all I know, they were going for a sense of cultural fraternity (that someone earlier in the thread excellently brought up as a word that, despite its roots, is a feeling we all typically aim to share.) Then again, that leads directly to my second point...
Being a part of that culture? That isn't a place I would want to work, either. But just because I find something untoward doesn't mean everyone would. That's what I mean when I said women get to decide what's offensive toward them, not men.
If men think something is offensive toward women, and women don't... Then I think it would be a very odd argument indeed. I think men can have an opinion on it, and I think most of us here probably agree it's at the very least tasteless, but matter like this, I would tend to defer to the party claiming offense. The question becomes what makes HER feel uncomfortable, and avoiding that.
It's something polite that could be done with anyone on any topic, but especially should be if the vast majority of a group finds it shockingly offensive.
I certainly don't think women would want to be called "programmerettes" or "programmeresses" en masse. And I'm too afraid to Google those.
As to the points I was trying to make, my intent was to say that yes, I believe it absolutely would drive off more women than men by appealing to a culture that is male-dominant. But I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that it was done with the explicit intent of establishing a "no girls allowed" company. I do think those guys should've been more thoughtful about who they were appealing to, and I'm glad MattManser brought it to our attention; it's an interesting read. But I'm not as quick to call them sexist assholes. For all I know, they were going for a sense of cultural fraternity (that someone earlier in the thread excellently brought up as a word that, despite its roots, is a feeling we all typically aim to share.) Then again, that leads directly to my second point...
Being a part of that culture? That isn't a place I would want to work, either. But just because I find something untoward doesn't mean everyone would. That's what I mean when I said women get to decide what's offensive toward them, not men.
If men think something is offensive toward women, and women don't... Then I think it would be a very odd argument indeed. I think men can have an opinion on it, and I think most of us here probably agree it's at the very least tasteless, but matter like this, I would tend to defer to the party claiming offense. The question becomes what makes HER feel uncomfortable, and avoiding that.
It's something polite that could be done with anyone on any topic, but especially should be if the vast majority of a group finds it shockingly offensive.