> I actually very much dislike labels such as "the right" and "the left"
I do as well, because they conflate too many unrelated things together, and it's impossible to pin down something as amorphous as "the [direction]".
> the "pro-life" movement as in the political movement that is trying to overturn Roe are very much exactly how I portray them above
So are you against this "movement" or the position? I'm in the pro-life movement and I don't support the death penalty.
> Name any prominent figure in the pro-life movement who also strongly opposes the death penalty.
Oh, I'm not prominent though.
Archbishop Gomez, president of the USCCB and board member of the National Catholic Bioethics Center, is pro-life and against the death penalty.
> The issue is that the debate is not about convincing the fundamentalists, they can not be convinced
I referred to "people who hold positions that are at least internally consistent", and then you started talking about fundamentalism? What does it mean to be "fundamentalist"? It sounds like it's one whose "belief trumps rational arguments". Those people are the worst. I don't think that they're the same people as who I was referring to, though.
Anyway, I think we both agree on the nit I was trying to pick initially which is that broad labels aren't generally helpful to anybody trying to reach the truth, but they sure do get used a lot in our modern discourse.
> I referred to "people who hold positions that are at least internally consistent", and then you started talking about fundamentalism? What does it mean to be "fundamentalist"? It sounds like it's one whose "belief trumps rational arguments". Those people are the worst. I don't think that they're the same people as who I was referring to, though.
Yes I agree with you, and I should have been more specific that by fundamentalist I don't necessarily mean religion either. Your characterisation of "someone whose belief trumps rational arguments" hits it quite well on the head.
> Anyway, I think we both agree on the nit I was trying to pick initially which is that broad labels aren't generally helpful to anybody trying to reach the truth, but they sure do get used a lot in our modern discourse.
I generally agree, but what I tried to say with referring to the book above, was that there are different types of debates.
That said, I accept the criticism, we should try to keep the debates here on HN more about exchanging views in an "honest" (for lack of a better word) discourse, and use less labels. I will try to do better in the future.
> Your characterisation of "someone whose belief trumps rational arguments" hits it quite well on the head.
Those words were a quotation from your post :)
It seems to me like a good definition of a certain kind of person who I don't like to argue with, but I don't like abdicating the term "fundamentalist" to them because I consider myself a fundamentalist / because it just doesn't seem to really fit.
I enjoyed this exchange, thanks and cheers to you.
I do as well, because they conflate too many unrelated things together, and it's impossible to pin down something as amorphous as "the [direction]".
> the "pro-life" movement as in the political movement that is trying to overturn Roe are very much exactly how I portray them above
So are you against this "movement" or the position? I'm in the pro-life movement and I don't support the death penalty.
> Name any prominent figure in the pro-life movement who also strongly opposes the death penalty.
Oh, I'm not prominent though.
Archbishop Gomez, president of the USCCB and board member of the National Catholic Bioethics Center, is pro-life and against the death penalty.
> The issue is that the debate is not about convincing the fundamentalists, they can not be convinced
I referred to "people who hold positions that are at least internally consistent", and then you started talking about fundamentalism? What does it mean to be "fundamentalist"? It sounds like it's one whose "belief trumps rational arguments". Those people are the worst. I don't think that they're the same people as who I was referring to, though.
Anyway, I think we both agree on the nit I was trying to pick initially which is that broad labels aren't generally helpful to anybody trying to reach the truth, but they sure do get used a lot in our modern discourse.