Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available.
There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu to start it then when? It's just asking "Do you want to do this now?" if not that is fine (the menu can be exited), but now you know to do it later.
Alternatively as the dishwasher clearly is on Wi-Fi already (the only way it would know there's an update), one can use the Miele@Home app to perform the update at a more convenient time.
I have a Miele dishwasher, it is connected to Wi-Fi (on a VLAN with other white goods, outbound connections to certain domains only). The Wi-Fi is useful... the dishwasher auto-doses the powder, rinse aid, salt, etc... and can let me know the levels of those. In addition it tells me when the cycle is done. Performs updates, etc. There's a Home Assistant integration too, but I've not done that (my VLAN setup prevented it!).
PS: If you're of the opinion that a dishwasher doesn't need to be on Wi-Fi and you wouldn't connect it... then great, that's another way not to be asked to do an update. This dishwasher isn't going to ask to connect to Wi-Fi, it's something you choose to do (something that takes a degree of determination I might add).
To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)
> To be fair, it could also get functionality updates
This is an important point that owners[1] sometimes miss.
For example, if the owner makes a deal to partner with the maker of a particular detergent tab, the owner could create a new feature that only works with those tabs and not regular powder detergent.
1: Owner: the person who owns the firmware being sent over WiFi.
Yeah but usually what happens is that no new development of that sort occurs during the (intentionally limited by cheaped-out hardware design) lifetime of the appliance. If they do push any updates, they'll either be to fix security problems (only if you're lucky enough that they get fixed at all), or they'll push some horrible software feature users didn't ask for which worsens their experience vs how it operated when purchased and brings new bugs. Appliance manufacturers are terrible at firmware/software. You get all the downsides and none of the upsides.
And just general bug updates. Remember how buggy appliances used to be, back in the bad old days when they were too simple to run whole operating systems? A couple months after release these things will be mostly free of glitches!
Never is a strong word. If corporations can take advantage of you, so you can you of them. I’m yet to pay a single dollar for ink. The free 10 pages a month plan with HP allows me to use it to print the occasional recipes and labels in full color for free. I knew I’m not going to print too much stuff and I can swap it out for my own ink if my need changes. I keep the printer plugged out except when I need to print and it works out well for me so far.
(This was why HP was trying to phase out the plan).
Meta: I intended this comment to be a pun because of the post about the Tesla 3 update but it is getting a surprising number of upvotes. Apparently it's striking a chord.
First of all, if you're a UX designer sorry for being a little snarky to you. A fair amount of it is probably unfair.
Second, maybe you can shed some light on why that kind of UX updates happen. As somebody else wrote in another comment "designers designing for design sake". Maybe it's not.
Third, maybe you can enlighten us developers about the circumstances when designers think that developers develop for development sake. I'm sure it happens.
Miele (and BSH) is really good at industrial design in my experience so I'd be surprised if they'd do something like that. However, I also don't really see a particular reason why a dishwasher needs WiFi. Do people actually like... check on them and come running to unload it when it's done? I suppose for checking if it needs dishwasher salt or rinse aid it could make sense but ... eh
Miele's user interface isn't that great. I owned a Miele laundry machine. After you press "start" there is no way you can undo that. This sucks. Even missiles have an "unlaunch" feature.
With my washing machine, I press the button. It'll say "no", drain down the drum so the water doesn't fall out when the door opens, then say "yes" and the door unlocks.
Apps used: 0.
Would be useful if the machine could select and load the washing itself from the basket, I'd use that app.
but why? I mean if I'm doing laundry I'm within 50 ft of the machine generally? I have never needed to do such an operation or can think of a situation where the added complexity merits the addition of wifi and security threats of a Russian hacker trying to mine etherium on my dish washer.
I can't claim to know every Miele there is but both an early 80s and an early 2010s Miele has pause/continue buttons. On the 2010 one it even looks like a play-pause button.
My first reaction was to write a comment about why you don't need WiFi on a dishwasher. Then I found there may be use cases: you want to start the washing program from the office so it finishes right before you get home. That day when you need to stay another hour in the office, being able to interact with the machine is a nice to have, even if not a really important thing. Same as with air conditioning when you want to save electricity.
We try to avoid running our dishwasher when our toddler is around because he will interfere with the cycle, but sometimes we forget to start it right before heading out the door. Remote start would be handy in a case like that :)
Still an overengineered solution -- a better feature would be some kind of access lock. Either a keycode or something requiring a lot of strength to remove.
(Edit: With that said, I am reluctant to leave the dishwasher on when I'm not present for the first cycle just because of the risk of something going wrong that wasn't adequately checked for.)
Off-peak electricity pricing, not wanting to wake/disturb others with noise, not wanting to consume too much hot water before the rest of the house showers or uses the clothes washer...
Yep, it's just a dial that lets me delay up to 12 hours lol. Overengineered hackable electronics. I'd rather than cost go into a more sturdy unit made of better materials. My dishwasher is 20 years old and works fine. The owner of the house before me said he did have one of the timer replaced at some point.
I would find it useful to check whether the dishwasher is currently running. At least BSH has models without any indication outside where the dishwasher is fully hidden behind a frame.
There is no need of a screen. Either a WPS button or start in access point mode, find its IP address, connect to a web server on that address and set the SSID and password there. I got stuff doing both ways upon the first start up or after a factory reset.
The only UI a dishwasher needs is "wash" and "dishes in here are still clean don't put in dirty dishes yet." I've yet to see a dishwasher do the latter with the necessary nuance.
"Soon you will be able to turn on your water valve and enjoy clean dishes, almost as much joy as being a part of the Tesla Family. Keep your eyes out for a dry cycle for only an additional $8000"
Those old TVs had some serious usability issues, though. There were 10 (?) channels selectable by one knob, and then additional channels selected if the main knob was turned to the correct setting ("UHF", if I recall correctly). The master knob tended to be below the additional-frequency knob, though, which seems a little strange. Then there was the challenge of the fine adjustment ring on the UHF selector for tuning (not sure if the master knob had one). And, of course, the more frequently needed coarse adjustment from the (unmentioned) antenna, which seemed like it always needed some hacky tweaking. Including sometimes touching it continuously in order to get a good picture.
Do never connect things to any network - and especially the internet - if it is not required for operation.
What worries are people which blindly request "more digitalization". We need resilience, not digitalization! Once a unnamed person complained about the fact the the Boeing 747-400 still gets flight data updates with a floppy. They argued it should use WiFi and central updates from a server and so on. NOT! The floppy allows control, save operation and flexible updates. Don't even add an USB-Port, this just allows someone to roast the electronics with a cheap USB-Gadget.
Just let programmers program more code doesn't make good programs. Actually it is vice versa.
Seriously I don’t understand the need at all to have your kitchen be connected to wifi at all. Not everything needs to be quantified, unless you use measuring cups for cooking.
Second I can’t trust manufacturers to rush something out the door to “fix it in post”
Consumers obviously see enough value in remote control for it to be added as a feature, I'm not sure putting the cat in the bag is a great solution at this point
That said while I do disagree with the above consumers, I don't care about remote control but I would quite like remote status updates from various appliances (is the door locked, is the washing cycle finished, has the fridge been left open, etc.)
Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness.
But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.
There's no particular incentive for the changes made after the sale to improve functionality, particularly if the nominal owner of the machine can't detect them. If your wash efficiency is better this month than last month, wouldn't you like to know what change caused that? How about if it's worse? What if it accidentally breaks your dishwasher? Or the new, more efficient settings no longer get your dishes fully clean?
I don't think there's a terribly strong incentive for Miele to actively break their customers' deployed machines, since those customers might buy a Bosch next time, but there isn't a terribly strong incentive for them to improve them either.
There is a strong incentive for Miele to find ways to sell their customers' personal information, for example to insurance companies, collection agencies, or police forces, and this is functionality that can be added later in a firmware update.
Better to leave update functionality under the control of the people who are most directly affected by it: the users.
In theory, but in practice it doesn't actually matter enough for it to make a difference. What software-only advances are being made in wash efficiency these days?
Release Notes v3: Accidentally added too many dubs leading to "scrubba-dub-dub-dub-dub-dub-dub-dub" routine. Rolled back to a reasonable number of dubs.
I've used Miele appliances for 3 decades now. Somehow, until recently, they managed to provide excellent quality and durability without spying on their users and releasing half baked firmwares in need of updates.
This can easily been spun the other way around:
There was a firmware upgrade that would save 10% energy / water / time in certain circumstances, but that evil corp hasn't provided us with a way to upgrade, because they want us to buy a brand new dishwasher.
Except that they clearly never tried to incentivize customers into frequent upgrades. Quite unlike most other brands that have a habit of dying months out of warranty.
Anecdata: In my wive's house, we have a Miele wasching machine from the year 2000. Its been used daily. It is as good as on the day it was purchased - quiet, and does not vibrate even when spinning at its max 1600 rpm. Its pretty amazing.
I believe when it was last cleaned they did install new firmware -- though to be entirely hoenest, I doubt a lot of people really know or care how efficient their wasching machines are -- water is way too cheap.
Every dishwasher I've ever used, your best bet is to put everything on full blast, least efficient settings. Otherwise the dishes get "almost" clean. I always imagine the engineers standing around patting themselves on the back after testing, and marveling how their ideas worked so well most of the dishes got clean.
The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.
I can guarantee that the majority of the ineffective cycles are there because of environmental regulations (energy star in the US; there are equivalents in other western countries).
The big one that drives me nuts on new cars are all the auto start/stop at idle systems. They eat car batteries and starters (increase wear from oil starvation on startup too - consumer car engines are not positively lubricated; pressure has to pump back up every time the engine starts) and there is no way to disable them other than pushing a button every time you start your car (or hacking around with the wiring), but I'm sure they are critical in obtaining higher gas milage requirements so expect them to proliferate. It's crap that happens when you focus on one metric - gas milage - to the exclusion of "the big picture" such as total carbon footprint over the life of the car including the manufacturing and replacement costs/environmental impact of replacing prematurely worn out parts from "energy efficient" design decisions.
Isn't this the truth. Over Christmas family was around and someone loaded the dishwater and put it on economical or whatever the 'easy wash' mode was called, i chuckled knowing they might as well waved the dirty dishes in the sky for an equilavent wash. Its like, why are the other options even there...Intensive wash, every time.
Same experience here. This can’t be right though. Surely we are the exceptions and there really are idiotic committees forcing manufacturers to include eco settings that don’t work - rather than the other explanation of some dishwashers being crap?
My Mum has a Hotpoint because she skimped on it during a kitchen refit. It's complete crap compared to a mid-tier Bosch: the cleaning is worse, the tablet often gets stuck in the tray, and it doesn't dry properly.
That said, even the Bosch needed a new heat pump after 3 years which was an adventure in unreasonably complex disassembly.
Yup - the amount of excess detergent alone that is being washed into the wastewater systems is staggering when you think about how much is extra detergent in fixed size pods is wasted across the board.
My parents had a GE dishwasher that auto dosed a liquid paste dishwashing detergent. It worked great, only dispensing what the dishwasher sensed the dirt load called for. For some reason my mom hated it and they replaced that dishwasher with one that they now use pods with. Sigh - I don't think she liked the feeling of not being in control.
We humans can be so annoying sometimes.
EDIT: that GE also did it without requiring a wifi connection or firmware updates :p
Until we use the last of the pods up I've found if you put a squirt or two of Dawn Powerwash in for the prewash it works amazingly well. And before the inevitable comments come up: unlike regular dish soap (do NOT put in a dishwasher) it doesn't suds up either. Yeah, it does a little at first but by the end of the prewash cycle the foam is gone - yes, I have checked.
As an aside: Dawn Powerwash is flat out amazing in general, especially for really crusty/baked on stuff. Spray some on, come back in 15 minutes and it will more than likely wipe right off - if it hasn't dissolved whatever was crusted on and ran off already. If you haven't tried it and it's available in your area give it a try! Amazing degreaser. Works on laundry with grease stains, carpet, oil stains on the driveway (mop up with kitty litter/towels; don't wash down the street!) and all kinds of other non-kitchen uses too.
I don't have any issues putting dirty dishes in my dishwasher. Do you use pre-wash detergent in your machine? I highly recommend you watch this video by Technology connections[1], I too used to think I had to rinse my dishes before putting them in the machine.
I have a Bosch dishwasher and in the manual it actually states not to pre-rinse the dishes before putting them into the dishwasher. Of course I rinse the bigger pieces of food off anyway because otherwise the filter will need to be cleaned more often (doesn't have a grinder/disposal), but it does also waste a ton of water, and energy heating that water, to pre-wash your dishes.
I believe the real trick is not to overfill the machine with dishes, and ensure your dishes are arranged properly.
> I believe the real trick is not to overfill the machine with dishes, and ensure your dishes are arranged properly.
This. Filling a dishwasher is an art of binpacking in itself. I'm pretty satisfied by my Bosch one, unless it is just a1-2 cycle before asking for the cleaning cycle, 95% of the times everything come up perfectly clean, even with the "eco" program. When something comes out dirty (if everything was properly placed), usually it will nag you to clean the dishwasher on the next cycle or the other.
> There is no need to rinse items under
running water!
Dishwashers already pre-wash with an initial rinse cycle, the whole point is that they do the washing for you. It's also a whole lot more efficient in terms of water waste.
The problem is when you don't give that first cycle any powder to work with, ie. if you're using pods.
I've never pre-washed dishes unless it is rice. Everything else goes straight into the dishwasher as it was collected from the table. Always comes out clean and never had problems (unless it is rice... which seems to never get fully rinsed away).
I never do, and my dishwasher works fine? What am I doing wrong? Why would I "prewash" and waste precious water and time when it's going to be washed just fine?
Some people put the dirtiest dishes in the history of humanity in their washer and then complain it doesn’t clean very well. A quick rinse with water to get the chunks, or the really caked on stuff off works wonders.
We just run the normal eco program without any extras. The dishes get perfectly clean every time as long as nothing hinders the rotating arms that spray water.
This is the big cause of issues for us (Bosch 800). Either the arms are blocked or the holes clogged, or the middle rack's hose junction hasn't properly mated with the water source at the back of the machine.
Overall I'm really happy with this machine though; worth the pretty penny it costs.
Depends on the size of your household a bit. If it runs every second day, it should not be a problem. If you save dishes for a week or two, the additional water from the intensive program really helps to get rid of dried out dirt.
Ours runs 2-3 times a day, but even still, I typically soak all the cutlery in a tall glass or pitcher full of water in the sink, and load it last minute. There are just too many nooks and crannies for stuff to get stuck in on a fork or knife, and they cleaning they get in a three-rack machine is too gentle for anything other than a sterilizing rinse.
> Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo.
Or it is treated by the same algorithm like all the other cleaning powders, which is: "mix with water then spray through nozzles". Strangly enough, this has worked great for decades without firmware updates. For the longest time it even worked without firmware.
Maybe a silly question, but does Miele require a specific kind of cleaning powder or packet, or does it have an option to tell it what kind of cleaning powder you're using?
My dishwasher you just dump any boxed powder in and I can use any brand I want. I'm assuming that for a machine this expensive and geared at long-term usage Miele would have the same capabilities, and it's not like a Keurig thing where the user is forced to use individual pods.
But if that's the case then I'm not sure how this would work unless the user enters a config setting or something for what soap they're commonly using. Water hardness the washer could measure itself, I guess.
The washing machine auto-dosing though... that isn't as bad, being more cost-efficient overall.
My take on it all: Miele dishwashers are so-so... their washing machines and fridges excellent, the ovens above average, the hobs exceptional, the hoods well made but over-priced.
Entire dishwasher it's a gimmick. you can wash dishes yourself. or you can use dishwasher in order to save some time. same with auto-dosing - it's a convenience and it's really convenient. with regards to pricing: machine comes with 6 disks. You can refill them later with usual powder in a couple of minutes.
Another gimmick that machine has, it's auto-opening at the end of the cycle in order to vent off steam.
I had many different dishwashers over the years, but Miele one is so far the best I ever had
it's manual for older miele.
in new one you can either use standard detergent (pod, liquid, powder) or you can insert special 400g disc of powder and it was be auto-dispensed
Do they? Because that's literally the only kind of update I'd be interested in. If they actually regularly improve the way the dishwasher washes dishes, then that justifies the connectivity, but if these updates are rare, then I don't really care about them.
Maybe there's some new dirt-sensing algorithms that can use crowd-sourced info to improve the efficiency for your specific dirt patterns and water type and detergent combination.
Man if it could sense when the dishes are loaded so poorly that there’s no chance they get clean and just refuse to run until they’re rearranged, that would be so nice!
> Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo.
Ah, fantastic. "Now that we have updated the firmware, we have determined that you need the new proprietary cleaning powder. For your convenience, the dishwasher is disabled until you supply the proper cleaning powder."
The cynic in me would be really surprised if this were the case. I imagine it's more about collecting data, and updating so it can collect more data, better.
We used to get this right before stamping them out in the factory. Instead, everything is all appy now, for the benefit of the manufacturer. They are riding the hype to normalize their shitty behavior. Sort of like when banks inconvenience you for thier sake and say it's to protect you (the person under no risk of liability).
Important to remember these kinds of devices might not have any personal info on them, but they can still be useful for DDoS attacks and other things that are bad for everyone.
As opposed to stupider and more tedious ways to do firmware updates.
Real-world examples:
(1) Download firmware, stick it on a USB drive, put USB drive in device, go through arcane menus or button press sequence to do an update. I have two devices that work this way, an aftermarket car stereo Bluetooth adapter and a (musical) keyboard.
(2) Install some app (and maybe a driver) on a Windows computer, connect device to computer, and have the app push the firmware to the device. I have an old Garmin GPS watch that does it this way. (Which is extra annoying because the watch has an Android companion app which communicates with the watch over Bluetooth, and it can tell you an update is available but can't apply it.)
LOL my exact thoughts. I mean I would think the kinks would be worked out before it hits my kitchen. I mean it's a dishwasher, not a robotic arm assembling cars with sub mm resolution. Add an emergency usb connection for critical upgrades as in "woah we missed something really big" and be done.
The WiFi functionality on Miele appliances is completely optional. Just don’t connect it to WiFi during initial setup and it’ll never do anything connected or prompt you about it. You can also reset the config if you change your mind later. You can even buy the cheaper model without WiFi. Frankly, I don’t see the problem here.
Hah, I have an AC window unit from Miele that is a great piece of hardware. But the app, my god, it's so bad. Every launch of the app requires a log in. Every log in error messages pop up about api endpoint such and such, but it works anyway. If a command fails, which it does half the time, the app gets out of sync with the unit (i.e. app will say fan speed medium, unit will say fan speed low). So I guess it syncs state on startup and never again, and doesn't check if commands fail. But there is one feature I can only find in the app, not from buttons on the unit (turning all LEDs off on the unit while it continues to run).
The buzzwords I never hear on HN is Digital Twin. It's usually in a HVAC or like smart building context. It's a buzzword for a simple idea, but the makers of the Miele AC app probably should have thought a little harder about tracking system state, maybe read a little of the literature.
I have a Miele speed oven that arrived with a major defect: Microwave worked, but heat modes didn't. They sent a repair crew and there was a missing wire harness in the circuitry. It never could have worked.
My experience with "high end" appliances in general (Bosch, Miele, Wolf, Subzero) is that it's a tax on "rich people". They're not better than top-line LG, etc.
I agree on a lot of them. Miele however, my mother's last Miele dishwasher lasted 22 years and they were still selling spare parts up until the day she replaced it. That's pretty unheard of in today's day and age
That's their service department. The build quality is an entirely different story and Miele stuff in stores today is not of the same quality that it was 22 years ago. And it definitely isn't the same as it was 50 years ago (amazingly: some of that stuff still runs today).
Miele had a definite edge on build quality, that means that services are fewer and farther between than with other brands given the same amount of use.
The joke was that if you wanted to armor plate your car you could do so with the side panels of Miele washing machines. Not too far from the truth, they were also much heavier than competitor gear. But those days are - as far as I can tell - over.
Yup. I tend to prioritize manufacturers like Whirlpool that make service manuals and parts readily available. Sadly Whirlpool is in an ever shrinking minority. Here in the US there are zero advantages to the European brands - parts and service are atrocious adding insult to injury.
Theres more than initial acquisition cost or the looks of the appliance that's worth considering when purchasing!
I have to sort-of disagree with you! I've used 100s of dishwashers (used to work at a test lab) and Miele dishwashers are indisputably "better" (more on that below) than anything else on the consumer market, and I would be completely willing to bet you a nice dinner that you would agree after using one. Same for their vacuums, they are on a completely different level of performance than anything else I've used.
All that said, I do not own a Miele dishwasher because it's benefits are not worth the high cost to me, however I have severe allergies and while I hated to pay for it, a Miele vacuum has ruined me for all other vacuums.
*Not a Miele salesman, just love very clean carpets. I'd be thrilled to learn about a cheaper alternative that can remove hair/dander/dust and etc as well from carpets as a Miele can, but so far nothing has come close.
Best thing for carpets is a central vacuum system. Oversize the motor unit and you can get units that will suck up 2" rocks with zero problems. The noisy motor can be located anywhere instead of in the room with you - I love to put it outside in the garage. And as someone with allergies, the biggest advantage of a central vac is it can be plumbed to fart the exhaust outdoors!
And if you have hard surface floors there is nothing faster than pulling out a lightweight flexible hose with a floor brush and running the vac over it. Faster than sweeping and again doesn't stir up dust/dander/hair like sweeping does.
I will never own a house without a central vac. And if you are really OCD about your carpet cleaning there are Wet/Dry central vac systems that have built in carpet cleaners. Will automatically discharge the waste water to the sewer. A bit pricy and exotic but I have a few friends who if they owned such a system would probably use them weekly (and mold the heck out of their carpets too!).
Maybe, maybe not. But a lot of those companies haven’t existed for longer than my latest washer.
You buy those brands because you know exactly what you get. Basically guaranteed performance for the next 10 years, and very likely after.
I do wish they didn’t jump on the app bandwagon, but they really have no choice since the rabble wants it. I swear people will pick an appliance with an app simply so they don’t have to press the preheat button on their oven. And you can do it from the couch! Never mind that you don’t ever do that…
"You buy those brands because you know exactly what you get."
No, you won't. Just because you had an appliance that lasted 20 years before doesn't mean you are going to get the same today (you aren't). Energy efficiency standards have affected all manufacturers. Complexity leads to unreliability over time - all manufacturers are affected. Some will still be better than the rest, but if you aren't prioritizing manufacturers who are repair friendly you are going to either be spending multiples of the original cost of your appliance over time, or just flat out replacing them more often.
Or just fix that 20 year old appliance you already have when it breaks (almost always the best answer vs. buying new - with just about anything!)
> I swear people will pick an appliance with an app simply so they don’t have to press the preheat button on their oven.
Absolutely. The other day a colleague described the fact that her washing mashine's app tells her when the program is finished as an essential, must-have feature. I understand that it's useful and nice to have but if you're wearing an Apple Watch anyway, as she does, just set a timer. It's what I do.
In my opinion “top of the line” any appliance is usually worse than the entry model. Typically it just adds more “features” that introduce additional moving parts, circuit boards, and displays. Rarely if ever do I need these things, and there’s a real hit to reliability.
I’ve been kitting out a new house and the appliance I’ve been most satisfied by far is my Victory Twister range hood. It’s a stainless steel box with a blower, some lights, a couple wires and two rotary switches. I wish I could buy all my appliances without PCBs.
please, rich people don't even notice the cost of these pieces of equipment. the ones that might feel the pinch are the ones punch above their weight class to give of the look the are better off than they are. not much different from classes of cars that look like you make money, but every time you take them to the dealership, minimum $800.
if that's a tax on rich people, then they aren't very rich.
Definitely middling quality and design. Our Bosch dishwasher has the worst UI. Nothing exterior at all, only buttons inside the door itself. There's a secret button combo to set the "done" alarm to one of 4 volume settings: too loud, even louder, why is this so f'ing loud, and silent. So you either get a horrible noise that rings intermittently until you open it, or you get to play guessing games.
Our Breville toaster oven has the same loudness settings, but only 3 total. You clearly have the ability to set the loudness - give me a really quiet (but not silent) option damnit. I have a baby in the house.
Just crack it open and either clip the leads to the "speaker" or put a few layers of tape over it. I too hate appliances with loud beeps - or the new annoying trend of playing songs (usually from the Asian manufacturers).
Love my Breville toaster oven though - thing is so stinking versatile and by far the best of any I have ever used. We use it as an oven far more than as a toaster. Perfect for heating/baking most stuff without heating up the entire house like the regular oven does. We have the one that also has the air fry mode - use that mode all the time to cook vegetables that are delicious and a lot healthier too. Did I mention we really love our Breville toaster oven? And to think I originally chose it because it was the only one I could find that had a stinking light inside?
Bosch has a lot of product lines at many levels of quality/value and features. A buddy of mine was an engineer on a project that cloned the Miele G7xxx (their top-of-the-line dishwasher), their version is in the same class as a Miele G7 and the (extremely high) price is comparable too.
In case of modern appliances, you are not the only customer/user of the product. Other customers are various advertisers that are interested in data about you. The updates provide enhancements for these other customers.
We should stop calling it the advertising industry and just call it the tracking industry. Advertising just happens to be the most obvious consumer.
IMHO, IoT is a clusterfuck because it's preying on users' past goodwill towards computing. Historically, computers have worked "pretty well" (especially in the last couple decades).
So users, when looking at a network-enabled fridge, toaster, etc. logically assume "Oh, this will be like my laptop."
What's not apparent to them is how good modern computing has gotten (unless they remember the 90s), or that the companies making IoT stuff have no prior experience in software, or that there are effectively no certifications, standards, or laws around IoT quality.
Not all IoT is the same. I only buy into IoT systems that I control and have zero or minimal cloud connections. Started years ago with the original X10 powerline control stuff, but as soon as the ZWave wireless mesh stuff started getting traction switched to that and never looked back. I use HomeSeer which is commercial home automation software - that will talk to just about ANY home automation standard out there. The UI is ugly as hell but its ridiculously versatile and functional. If I were to set up something now I'd just stick to stuff that can work locally with HomeKit and use HomeAssistant as the brain to replace HomeSeer. I already have HomeSeer and it works so no need to replace it, but thankfully there are alternatives like HomeKit that are capable - and free!
> I have never once needed my dishwasher to be operated remotely. Load it and press start.
Time-delay is in fact a rather useful feature e.g.
1. I may not want to start the dishwasher at 11 PM, especially if I’m in a condo and will prevent neighbours from sleeping
2. depending on the specifics of the dishwasher & local water, I may want it to finish soon before I come home so I can quickly dry the dishes (e.g. if water is very hard)
Every dishwasher I've seen has a time-delay feature. Regardless, if this is a Miele, it will be so quiet that it definitely won't prevent anyone from sleeping. And isn't the dishwasher supposed to dry the dishes itself?
My wife starts work earlier than me, so goes to bed sooner, but takes a shower before bed. She often asks me to start the dishwasher after she finishes showering (So the water temp in her shower doesn't fluctuate while the dishwasher fills), and then I forget all about it.
I had to chuckle at that too, my dishwasher is almost too quiet, I can barely tell if it's on without listening to it closely it looking at the controls.
It is super easy on all I have seen. There is button which adds either 30min or 1 hour (depending on model) to delay when I press it. That is it, press it until delay is what you want.
That did not happened to me. Not even once. Also, the one who had 30 min delay shift reset after 12 hours. Which was sufficient literally every time. Also, you can turn it on and off which resets delay to 0 too.
I mean this 100% seriously: this is super easy to configure. No reason to fiddle with wifi, phone, app nor website.
> The dishes get clean and it has no software just buttons.
Playing devil's advocate, all modern appliances run software to some extent. A modern dishwasher that does auto-dispensing will be particularly more complex.
> If the dishes get clean what further enhancements needed to be done?
It's not out of the question that the firmware might need to be updated to manage liquids more efficiently, tweak cycle timings, pressure, temperature, etc. It's no different than an EV for which you can install custom firmware to change its behavior.
> A modern dishwasher that does auto-dispensing will be particularly more complex.
Show me the evidence that a "complex" auto-dispenser gets dishes cleaner than a mere pre-wash + main wash dispenser.
The only argument I could see is that people who use tablets exclusively aren't currently able to use the pre-wash, thus giving them a substandard wash. But then you have to ask-- if the detergent manufacturers have already successfully marketed a tablet of detergent that doesn't conform to the design of the dishwasher and thus degrades the wash quality, what makes you think a firmware update from the manufacturer couldn't, say, improve the energy efficiency while degrading the overall washing quality?
Tabs dispense the max does of detergent - whether its required or not. That's only good for the detergent manufacturers who get to maximize their profits overselling everyone on detergent. It's horrible for the environment - manufacturing, distribution and more importantly - wasted detergent that gets flushed down the sewer and drives up the complexity of treating wastewater.
Tabs absolutely suck! Is it really that freaking difficult to dump a little powder in a cup? My dad is 87 - the first six years of his life if they wanted water they hauled it from a well, if they wanted hot water they heated it on a stove - after chopping firewood. If they wanted light they lit a kerosene lamp. Fast forward and people are overdosing dishwashers because it's a few seconds faster to throw a tab in. While screeching about global warming. The irony.
Outside of Tesla, have you ever gotten a firmware update on an appliance or car that added features or did major UX changes? Even if they could, why would they? They'd rather you buy the latest model that "supports" whatever new feature they have.
You could say the same thing about pay once, use forever software and yet updating software, adding features and fixing bugs is common and expected. Of course that doesn't mean that there isn't any differentiation between products or held back features but maybe keeping customers happy actually aligns with the goals of the company?
"A modern dishwasher that does auto-dispensing will be particularly more complex."
Auto dispensing can be done without code. My parents had a GE that used an analog sensor for the water and varied the amount of soap dispensed based on its feedback. No microprocessor involved.
Microcontrollers are becoming more of a curse as more designers start to wedge them in just because they can; not because they are really needed.
>My parents had a GE that used an analog sensor for the water and varied the amount of soap dispensed based on its feedback. No microprocessor involved
By this same argument, old car engines without microprocessors would function just as efficiently as new ones with microprocessors, yet the evidence is that modern ones are more efficient in just about every way. Microprocessors allow much more sophisticated sensor inputs and tuning of systems, including dishwashers.
>designers start to wedge them in just because they can
Designers don't wedge in anything adding cost without benefit, otherwise competing cheaper models move consumers to other products.
lol - few designers have the electronics backgrounds to design circuits without microprocessors. Doesn't mean they are still the best answer for all situations.
And comparing a car to a dishwasher is more than a bit silly.
>Doesn't mean they are still the best answer for all situations.
Red herring. No one claimed all situations except you.
>And comparing a car to a dishwasher is more than a bit silly.
I didn't claim they're the same. I illustrated, correctly, that a microprocessor allows better analysis of sensor data than oldschool analog systems could. If old analog systems provided the functionality or cost savings a microprocessor could, then those would be used. Claiming designers simply put them in designs solely because they can is more than a bit silly, however.
>few designers have the electronics backgrounds to design circuits without microprocessors
I don't think you're in tune with electronics designers. I think all of them I know (a dozen+) all design systems with and without MCUs as needed. It's easier to design without, mostly since those are usually quite simple systems. When you can get a MCU for under a dime (and very powerful ones under $1), it's simply stupid to design complex systems with anything other than a MCU.
Have you designed, professionally for commercial products, either MCU based or old analog systems?
"If old analog systems provided the functionality or cost savings a microprocessor could, then those would be used."
This is a circular argument - if there was a better method for banks to access customer credit worthiness, they would be using that methodology. Wait, what do you mean global economy collapsed because of subprime loans?
God created the best possible world, because if better world would be possible then god would create that world instead. What, BigBrain, you think you can suggest an improvement to God's design and millions of years of evolution? You want separate holes to eating and drinking so that a million people don't choke to death every year?
With that logic no criticism of the existing system can be made, you don't even have to engage with veracity of any of the claims made by the poster and can reject his argument wholesale.
This poster is not interested in cost savings for the manufacturer, he is interested in claims about MCU making dishwasher more efficient. With engines we have recorded MPG improvements.
What improvements have materialised for diahwasher?
>What improvements have materialised for diahwasher?
It takes a simple google search if you were interested.
A huge one is the cost savings by allowing energy efficient motors that tune across a wide range of current/temperature/torque as an appliance runs [1]. This is decades old, and requires complex feedback and algorithms extremely costly to implement without a microprocessor. It also allows motors to use less materials, which given fluctuating raw material costs, reduces price volatility. So: energy savings, less materials, lower costs.
This is such a big deal that companies like STMicroelectronics make STM32 CPUs explicitly designed for this, for dishwashers, and they are sold as such [2].
The same control ideas are used to make the heater coils more efficient, again using algorithms implemented in MCUs. This allows top performing devices to use less energy. From 1993 to 2003 advances reduced avg energy use per cycle from 2.6kWh and 10 gallons of water to 1.8 kWh/cycle (30% less energy) and 6 gallons of water (40% less water) [3]. In 2020 avg is about 4.2 gallons per cycle [4]. In 2022 it's 2.36 gal [5].
Annual energy usage for 2022 dishwashers is around 199 kWh/yr [5]. From the above papers in 2008 it was around 325 kWh/yr.
I don't have a smart dishwasher, but I think an API to display the current salt level and a web UI that has some space to display and comfortable configure the various settings instead of 6 incomprehensible buttons would certainly be things I'd be interested in.
At the risk of sounding old and snarky, I’ve been looking at a Miele dishwasher and I’m afraid I’m not quite intelligent enough to use it without either an app or an advanced training program. Crap, what happened to ‘normal’ versus ‘heavy’? The damned things are more complicated than my child.
These machines have too many controls. My washer always runs on the same setting (I occasionally press the ECO button). Admittedly, most of my clothes are cotton or similar. When I had a dishwasher it was similar, but with a digital console. I used to just press "Wash". Of course, the controller board that makes all those options available is often the first thing to fail.
There's about a dozen settings on the washer's wash-cycle dial, and two rows of buttons. I don't know what they're all for. It's nuts - there must be about 40 combinations.
"the Wi-Fi is useful... the dishwasher auto-doses the powder, rinse aid, salt, etc... and can let me know the levels of those."
I do appreciate your respect for the usefulness of this functionality -- I just throw my laundry in the machine, press ON and then press START, throw in a random amount of soap and 60 minutes later or so I have clean clothes.
I suppose it technically could clean clothing too, albeit you probably can't fit very much without balling or layering stuff up too much to get it clean. A clothes washing machine is probably more efficient for this purpose.
Although for countries where laundry machines are typically in the kitchen, a theoretical hybrid machine would be interesting (if it worked well, and the dish specific stuff could fold away compactly), but in practice multi-function machines like that rarely seem to turn out well.
I've had AirBnB guests that used the electric kettle to cook ramen. This is an apartment with a stove, oven and all necessary kitchen equipment.
Of course this is stupid; you put the dry ramen in a bowl, pour on boiling water, and wait a minute or two. That's what the instructions on the pack actually say. It's not necessary to boil ramen.
Okay, but how is wifi involved in this process? We've had these machines for close to 100 years, they didn't get enough time to get a working alorythm?
Yeah, that tweet is click-bait meant to generate outrage clicks and follows. Most of the submissions on the front-page have -at best- incomplete titles.
I mean the tweet is putting the blame at the wrong people (it's a business decision after all), but I wouldn't go as far as call it "hate-inciting nonsense". You're not under attack.
The twitter poster in question, isislovecruft, has a bit of a volatile persona online. They have been involved in multiple controversies over the years. Not to discredit their work, but they seem to relish in the tech social media spotlight.
Then don't purchase a smart dishwasher. I won't be purchasing one either, nor will I purchase a smart microwave or a host of other smart appliances. The person who made the tweet, made the exact opposite decision AND connected their appliance to the internet.
Eh. I'm not saying that bad or deceptive UI isn't something worth talking about, but I think there is a really tangible difference between something being difficult to find and being impossible to do.
In some contexts, sure. There's a step change between an appliance doing this--where you are expected to have limited capabilities--and something like a general-purpose computer doing this.
An appliance going "nope, I have one path for this" is, tbh, to be expected. A dishwasher washes dishes, and the idea that there is a secret-sauce way to tell it to do something it isn't actively presenting to you is not something a reasonable person is going to expect. It's why my dishwasher has like eight buttons on the top--it enumerates everything it can do. So if that appliance is hiding its verbs, then a reasonable person is going to assume it doesn't have any.
buro9 has just explained that it will work without the update. The person in question also had the choice either to not buy a wifi enabled smart dishwasher, or not connect it to the internet. My own smart TV is not connected to the internet.
... if you know the secret button sequence to break out of the menu.
I can't think of a good reason to have a network-connected dishwasher. I don't think I'd ever start it remotely, as I still have to clear the table and rinse the dishes. The washer gets started when I'm done loading it. I can check detergent levels while the door is open.
Pretty much the same for all my other appliance for that matter.
> ... if you know the secret button sequence to break out of the menu.
I did see the twitter screenshots, but as I don't own the device myself I couldn't really judge if the GP's instructions are readily apparent to the average user.
Also, I don't disagree with you. But the OP seemingly bought such a device and connected it to their wifi. Maybe they are living in a furnished apartment with pre-configured wifi? Anyway - thankfully we are not yet in an era where ones only choice is a connected dishwasher - can still buy used, older models etc.
edit: One would hope that you can factory reset the dishwasher to make it forget the wifi information, if it has been configured by someone else.
I've been shopping these- I don't like network connected anything for appliances. Including for the reasons you gave.
But there are miele versions with custom programmable cycles for things like sterilizing labware, etc, where I could see a web page interface much easier to use than the buttons or screen on the device.
If your dishwasher Shopping don’t get caught up in the Miele brand. Wire cutter put them below almost all other brands including whirlpool Maytag and GE in terms of cleaning. Of course they still do have a good reputation for reliability.
>Miele’s cleaning performance is strong, but not quite the best we’ve found. We tested two different Classic Plus units (both installed in our office in Long Island City, New York), and they struggled a bit with the stubbornest foods, including a cheese-and-bean plate, egg, oatmeal, and burnt brownie. Miele’s model was a step behind the Bosch, Whirlpool, Maytag, and even GE dishwashers we tested. Consumer Reports (“Quick Guide: Dishwashers,” Consumer Reports Buying Guide 2021, pp. 23–25) also rates Miele just a tick below the best performers. But with most loads, most of the time, a Miele should still get everything totally clean.
Miele also started limiting the availability of parts to official Miele certified repair centres only¹, so repairability is limited too — i.e., you would have to go to an approved service company rather than do it yourself or have a local handy person do it.
1: This was reported in the news in the Netherlands, they may not be introducing this everywhere at once, but it is a worrying trend.
> on a VLAN with other white goods, outbound connections to certain domains only
...
That probably says what needs to be said about smart appliances. There's a reason that's the right choice. This same reason is the reason smart appliances are a bad idea.
Am curious: When the washer is past security updates, are you going to leave it on the VLAN? Would you do that if the washer had a camera or microphone?
> Am curious: When the washer is past security updates, are you going to leave it on the VLAN? Would you do that if the washer had a camera or microphone?
TBH I figure that this is roughly the point when the Wi-Fi chipsets can't connect to whatever the standard is at that moment in time.
The only really useful Wi-Fi feature of the white goods in my house would be within the hob and the extractor hood. These communicate over Wi-Fi so that the extraction is automatically turned on at the appropriate speed for however the hob is being used, and turned off 30 seconds after the hob stops being used.
I love how the only people that were going to be exempted were peoples who's cars cellular modems already didn't work. How convenient.
I hope I can be buried in the cars I currently own. And if I have to buy a new one if it won't work with the cellular modem being pulled out I ain't buying it.
My LG TV would not let we watch until I updated my Terms of Service. The only option was to agree or not be able to use the TV I had already purchased and paid for.
The "smart" stuff on my Sony TV is pretty damn good actually. It has all the major streaming services I use and the remote isn't half bad. It's actually taken over most of the functionality we used the Apple TV for.
Really? I bought a high end Sony Bravia with Android TV and the experience honestly sucks. It’s slow as hell, the sounds are awful, Google pushed fucking ads to the home and the UI is really not very nice looking. There are lots of apps though which is cool.
you assume everyone, me included, is complaining, and that Roku doesn’t track either. That’s the same mentality that people had about Google in the early days. There’s a need for embedded solutions, better design, lower costs, etc.
I don't doubt that, and I've considered replacing it. The lifespan of a "modern" dishwasher is about 10 years, a far cry from the 30 years that mine has run.
In the time that I've had mine, I would have had to replace a modern one about three times. I think that new ones would be more water efficient, but I do not see new ones being more efficient electrically. Mine is plumbed to hot water, so the heating elements are not used much and it dries them with blown air instead of heat.
If I am looking to reduce my electrical footprint there is much lower hanging fruit than my dishwasher. How much energy would go into the manufacturing, delivery, and installation of three dishwashers?
7-10 is pretty optimistic for most new stuff. Which is why I prioritize brands like Whirlpool that are repair friendly. Service manuals are readily available (often included inside the appliance!) and parts are readily available and cheap too. Brands like Bosch and Meile? Good luck - at least here in the US parts are a nightmare.
I'd be interested in seeing a comparison on this. Washing dishes is a pretty mechanically limited process. I can't imagine that much improvement has been made.
Better engineered sprayer jets, adding better sensors to determine water turbidity and other water metrics, additional sprayer arms (second-rack sprayer arms were pretty rare IME in the 90s, common today), automatic soap dispenser systems dispensing just the right amount of soap or rinse aid given on various water properties, etc.
Even today a super basic mechanical timer based washing machine probably won't work as well or as efficiently as a high end unit with various sensors and logic.
Water consumption I can imagine, but power consumption? And by how much anyway?
Improvements in these appliances always feel a little like those percentages on dishwashing liquid. If I would multiple all the improvements since 1990 I think one drop of detergent will be enough for the rest of my life.
I think in the end it's not abut utility--adding "smart" lets you dramatically bump the price. Look at smoke detectors (as an example I was thinking about this morning): the best-rated (Consumer Reports) wired smoke detector costs $31. Ten-year sealed battery models cost less. But the smart smoke detectors start at $130.
These cost another $2 in hardware and some dev (and probably certification) costs to recoup, but they also open the opportunity for subscriptions and who-knows-what-kind-of in-app purchases which can be sold to anxious-complacent-frazzled consumers with extra disposable income.
I'm not sure. Look at "smart" TVs. Their prices continue to go down. Why? They are heavily subsidized by all of the analytics they earn from the data you provide them. By lowering the price, it makes it easier to sell to more and more people. Raising the prices does not.
Not sure of the number of units sold comparing dishwashers vs TVs, so maybe there's not enough volume in dishwasher? Also, I can only imagine the analytics data from TV viewing is much more informative/beneficial than how many times someone washes dishes.
That's a good counter-example, and I agree with your suggestion that the value of the analytics probably explains the difference. (The value of smoke detector analytics is probably even lower than that of dishwashers!) So maybe we could agree that adding "smart" results in a more profitable product, whether that's because of a higher sale price, higher ongoing revenues, or both.
That best rated consumer reports detector only detects fast burning fires.
The Nest Protect, for example, has both slow burning and fast burning smoke detectors as well as carbon monoxide. Three detectors in one. They also have built sensors and perform weekly automatic self tests to ensure they will make noise/alert when needed and that the detectors are working. A non functioning sensor in a detector just provides a false sense of security. Just about every time there are deaths from house fires detectors are either missing or are non-functioning.
Speaking of non-functioning, many people disconnect detectors because the cheap ones are so hard to silence if there is a false alarm. Again with the Nest Protects you just wave at them. People are far less likely to disable something if it's not annoying.
When there is an event instead of just loudly beeping, they also speak in a clear voice what the issue is (smoke, CO, etc.) - and more importantly, which detector is going off so you know where the issue is as well. I love that for my parents who are older - clarity in a time of crises is life saving.
So yeah, at $100 (easy to find them on sale or bundled) they cost more than a $31 detector - but they also do a hell of a lot more. Having had friends/family who have had to deal with house fires in the middle of the night (very disorienting) or near death experiences with undetected carbon monoxide (it's more common that one would think!) the slight price increase of them is WELL worth it. A ridiculous pittance for the greatly increased peace of mind.
And they still work without connecting to the Internet. I would at least do it initially to configure them, especially to program in their locations so you get useful information in an emergency, then disconnect them if you are really paranoid. However I do like the alerting if there is a problem with one. It happens - sensors don't last forever and I'd rather know about a non-functioning detector and replace it rather than have a useless piece of plastic on the wall.
Also love the motion activated path light feature of them too - so perfect for moving around at night without waking others or having to fumble for a switch. Wish they had an option for brighter lights, especially for units in the hallway - or as supplemental emergency egress lighting. Would help further offset their higher cost.
But yeah, smart detectors - probably one place where there is SIGNIFICANT net benefit well worth the increased cost.
Your post missed the entire point of the frustration and arbitrates it away through an explanation that obfuscates clarity ad nauseum.
See what i did there. one sentence.
THE ISSUE PRESENTED IN THE POST: I want to use the product. I have to inconvenience my routine to use it.
This issue is pervasive in tech. It ASSUMES the idiot. Big Tech is defining what is best for the user. This is what we have bought. This post is pointing that out. From what I can tell, the Parent post here is a shill or is the typical 'doesn't happen to me tech elitist'.
That's about it. Found my login to make this comment. Logging out.
A good interface consisting of anything such as lights, screens, buzzers, chimes, etc could tell/alert you about levels or the status of the dishwasher without an app too.
>Alternatively as the dishwasher clearly is on Wi-Fi already (the only way it would know there's an update)
I guess yes it might be that but consider this workflow -
First start
Ask to update software - sounds legit
OK
Now you've okayed, now we ask to connect to Wi-fi - obviously need to connect to update software which you already agreed to!
If say user testing found that more people agreed to connect to Wi-Fi as part of update software on first installation then we get the above workflow and nobody says my dishwasher won't let me start without connecting to Wi-Fi which to some people might sound more worrying. And people then say there are lots of reasons why you should take software update - what about security! Bug fixes in the dishwasher!
but all that said you are probably right, it is on wi-fi and that's how it knows, but it won't necessarily stay that way forever.
I am still completely mystified by why it's useful to be able to check your dishwasher salt or rinse aid on a phone.
When it's empty, you still have to actually fill it, so if the LED comes on just fill the tank at some point in the next 10 or so cycles and it'll do.
And when old bag or bottle is empty, buy salt on one of the next 10 or so supermarket trips. The dishwasher will not need more any time soon after a refill.
Maybe I'm missing a crucial piece of modern life, but it feels like yet more stats porn to go with all the metrics vomited into life by fitness trackers and apparently every piece of software.
I added smart plugs flashed with Tasmota to appliances to determine that they are "done". No need for proprietary apps or to call the manufacturer, just measure the power draw.
If you simply need to know when the dishwasher is on, and be alerted when then off (complete), there are simple and non-wifi solutions by monitoring the power usage on its circuit.
For example, I have CTs directly attached to my laundry circuits which I monitor to generate alerts. Helps keep the family moving along when we all have laundry queued up.
1) if you run HassOS (Home Assistant Operating System), getting root shell where you can run appropriate nmcli commands is unnecessary convoluted (there are two "ssh & terminal" extensions, the "official" one won't give you a shell on the host, due to "security").
The good news is, that once you do have the root shell, configuring vlans is easy, it runs standard NetworkManager.
2) if you do not run HassOS, but inside a docker on some other common home devices, they can have their footguns too.
For example, if you have Synology NAS and run HA in docker, you are going to google for blog posts how to configure vlans + bonding (spoiler: no hybrid ports, only trunk), or vlans + openswitch, or, heaven forbid, vlans + bonding + openswitch. That are going to be few evenings appropriately spent.
3) Some devices, when connecting to wifi, would connect successfully only if the device you are pairing it from is on the same wifi (i.e. you can't have your phone on your main ssid/vlan and connect the device to isolated ssid/vlan). Bosch Home Connect, I'm looking at you...
Still stuck on Ubiquiti things. It does allow wrangling with the networks and the UI is very pretty... but configuring this to disable the Ubiquiti Cloud and yet enable most features locally was a PITA.
There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu to start it then when? It's just asking "Do you want to do this now?" if not that is fine (the menu can be exited), but now you know to do it later.
Alternatively as the dishwasher clearly is on Wi-Fi already (the only way it would know there's an update), one can use the Miele@Home app to perform the update at a more convenient time.
I have a Miele dishwasher, it is connected to Wi-Fi (on a VLAN with other white goods, outbound connections to certain domains only). The Wi-Fi is useful... the dishwasher auto-doses the powder, rinse aid, salt, etc... and can let me know the levels of those. In addition it tells me when the cycle is done. Performs updates, etc. There's a Home Assistant integration too, but I've not done that (my VLAN setup prevented it!).
PS: If you're of the opinion that a dishwasher doesn't need to be on Wi-Fi and you wouldn't connect it... then great, that's another way not to be asked to do an update. This dishwasher isn't going to ask to connect to Wi-Fi, it's something you choose to do (something that takes a degree of determination I might add).