I find it extremely interesting that ADHD is basically a United States thing, I had never heard of this thing in Europe, but in the US, it is actually talked about like it's an actual pathology, that can be actually diagnosed, and treated of course, surprise surprise, with Ritalin/Adderal.
No doubt that we are not all cognitively equal, but I am a personally convinced it is a total scam invented to put people on drugs.
One of the worst cases of ADHD I've personally seen was from someone from Bulgaria. I have neighbors who have it who are Russian.
The difference is, in those cultures you just 'try harder' or drink yourself into a stupor/early death if you can't fit in. The US at least gives folks options.
> One of the worst cases of ADHD I've personally seen was from someone from Bulgaria. I have neighbors who have it who are Russian.
Sure, millions of people, myself included, do have attention deficit issues, but the question is whether it is an actual pathology or something socio-educo-cultural. The very diagnostic seems to be extremely controversial amongst scientists, according to google. My bulshit meter is activated because again, while people with troubles of attention can be found everywhere, the United States is about the only country where ADHD is a thing.
PS: in terms of options, cocaine works as well and for sale everywhere in the world.
If something is clearly causing severe life issues in both places (as in clear issues with mental well being, same everything in that sense), but one writes it off as ‘whatever, they’re losers’ and the the other gives treatment and helps - I don’t think it’s that it isn’t a pathology in the place that just calls them losers and refuses to do anything.
Since a pathology is a disease (aka something not working) and all. And it clearly isn’t working in either place.
There is a reason why life expectancy is dramatically shorter for men in Eastern Europe, it isn’t just ADHD that gets this treatment.
And suggested illegal street drugs of unknown potency or other problems is somehow better than regulated and tested stimulants is more than a bit bizarre.
> If something is clearly causing severe life issues in both places (as in clear issues with mental well being, same everything in that sense), but one writes it off as ‘whatever, they’re losers’ and the the other gives treatment and helps - I don’t think it’s that it isn’t a pathology in the . place that just calls them losers and refuses to do anything.
There is no need to make a false dychotomy here: I have nothing about the use of substances if they help people struggling with attention and concentration, and there are probably tons of people on similar drugs in Europe. The only difference is that the United States is the only place where ADHD is a thing, e.g: considered an actual pathology despite the absence of any demonstration of a confirmatory physical (including chemical) abnormality in the brain. And I believe it leads to massive over-prescriptions.
> And suggested illegal street drugs of unknown potency or other problems is somehow better than regulated and tested stimulants is more than a bit bizarre.
I'm not suggesting anything, I used the example of cocaine as a substance that is known to improve concentration too. My point being, Adderal/Ritalin are not the magic drug that treats ADHD, they are just brain enhancing substances as well, sold by pharmacies.
Which is clearly false (ADHD is not only recognized in the US), and disingenuous to boot.
And you explicitly referred to cocaine as an equivalent option to prescribed medication. Despite it being highly illegal in nearly every country in the world, of difficult to ascertain quality or purity (and often cut with dangerous or unknown substances), and would be used in this context with no professional oversight - since it’s highly illegal.
> And you explicitly referred to cocaine as an equivalent option to prescribed medication.
No, I tried and failed to make you understand my main point that these drugs which are 'presecribed' for a pathology whose existence has yet to be scientifically demonstrated, are actually no different from cocaine in what they do when you take them. I've seen comments in this thread saying that since Adderal/Ritaline works and has positive effects, therefor the existance of ADHD is demonstrated. After all, that's an opinion as well, so please let me keep mine that Adderal/Ritaline are nothing but legal meth.
You have no idea what you are talking about. These stimulants work markedly different for folks with this different brain chemistry, and pretty clearly so.
20mg of Adderall for someone with ADHD (who benefits from it?) - finally only having one thing at a time they are thinking about instead of 20. And most of the time, they can sleep better that night - maybe even a ‘finally can sleep’ night.
Someone with normal brain chemistry? Obsessive, hyper focus and unable to sleep potentially for days.
And for anyone reading this who is wondering if that sounds familiar - a certain type of ADHD does tend to manifest as the ‘stays up for days working on the cool problem until they are so exhausted they pass out’, which looks remarkably like stimulant abuse for someone with ‘normal’ (quotes because it’s not like we fully understand what that means either) brain chemistry. And it happens without any external drugs or chemicals.
Medication (with stimulants) often allows the person to stop or control it when it isn’t helpful or desirable, and actually sleep. Which is quite unintuitive at first.
Inattentive type is also a thing, and often looks like someone who is always daydreaming/off in their own world. That tends to show up more in women, but that’s only a rough categorization. Some folks cycle back and forth.
Overall as pointed out elsewhere, it’s the difficulty in regulating and directing attention that is the problem, and when it causes distress and difficulty living a normal life is when it gets categorized as a disorder.
> These stimulants work markedly different for folks with this different brain chemistry, and pretty clearly so.
They are both brain stimulants, that's why I coined this "Legal meth".
PS: As for the rest of your arguments, not gonna answer because I have no idea what you are talking about, trying to mean, or even if this gibbering makes any sense at all. Please take your Adderall actually.
> The only difference is that the United States is the only place where ADHD is a thing,
This is just simply untrue. It is true that how seriously it is taken and what is usually prescribed as treatment varies significantly, but it is understood to be a real thing across Europe, at least. I have multiple friends in multiple countries who have received a diagnosis.
ADHD is not simply attention deficit, it's executive dysfunction. People with ADHD find it extremely hard to regulate their attention, among other things.
ADHD people can focus on things they enjoy or are interested in (More precisely, something that stimulates them) for excessive periods of time.
When something doesn't stimulate them, it's extremely difficult or impossible for them to regulate their attention and force themselves to focus on the task.
I’d even go so far as to say ADHD folks have little to no choice on focusing on things that are exciting for inordinate amounts of time. Sometimes it’s something that resolves quickly (a squirrel! moment), sometimes it’s weeks of coding with little to no self care instead of doing the taxes.
A lot of the common comorbid issues of anxiety or depression can come from the anxiousness and self abuse that comes from doing the exciting/interesting thing despite their every attempt to do what they know they should be doing.
Add in little external beatings in some environments, and it isn’t a pleasant existence.
I don’t get what scientifically separates ADHD from just being less cognitively capable in general or in other ways. Why is it a “special case” such that it has to be treated as a medical condition that requires drugs and special accommodations? I remember when we had AP tests in high school, kids with ADHD diagnosis were given unlimited time, and that felt wrong. The unique classification of ADHD feels to me like a product of America’s unique crossover between societal culture, economics, and medicine rather than something principled. But I am willing to hear a good explanation that changes my perspective.
Given the knee jerk reaction caused by my initial comment, I'm going to propose everyone to wait for 10 years until the rampant overprescriptions of these drugs become clearly in the eye of everyone, the new opioid epidemic.
In the meantime, I'll add ADHD to the list of uniquely american things (alongside circumcision and tipping), even tho I am sure that there are at least more than 0 people in every other country in the world who heard about ADHD before (so impressed by your rhetorical skills guys, merry xmas1).
Describing ADHD as “just less cognitively capable” is harmful as you could confuse knowing things and doing things. People with ADHD often struggle with doing things (starting, switching or sustaining focus on a task), but do struggle with knowing things. It’s a performance disability not an intellectual one.
Look up how stimulants affect an ADHD brain, it’s different to a brain without the disorder. In an ADHD brain neurotransmitters like dopamine are less available and removed quicker. Stimulants often act in ways to enable more dopamine to be around.
An analogy here is imagine having 70% packet loss on your internet connection. Try doing your job with that. You need to make a number of adjustments and accomodations to succeed. Well, when you add in stimulants that packet loss drops significantly to say >10%. I experienced this happen in real time when I started taking medication, and this is backed up by Dr Russel Barkley one of the leading experts in this area.
In a brain without ADHD (or a neurotypical brain) there’s no missing dopamine. So taking stimulants still increases the amount of available dopamine, but now there’s way to much. Norepinephrine is also increased with most stimulants to.
There’s real pharmacological evidence to back treating ADHD with medication. It’s well known to be one of the most successful medical treatments in psychiatry.
Giving kids with ADHD extra time or unlimited time is a reasonable accomodation if you want to test if that kid _knows_ the material. If you want to test if they can do it in the time frame, that’s a different test.
ADHD is not a uniquely American thing. Though there’s decades of stigma and loads of research to still be done. Right now we have treatments that work, and a decent understanding of ways to accommodate people with ADHD.
Medication is temporary, and helps correct for a lack of naturally occurring neurotransmitters. (Though I believe it’s more because our brains reuptake them too fast?)
It’s a bit of a shame the medication is a party drug for nuerotypical people, because I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t even be having this conversation if it wasn’t.
I’ll finish by adding that I think ADHD is horrifically named. The name alone contributed to me not looking into it seriously enough which delayed my diagnosis by at least a decade. The disorder really is more a challenge with executive functioning and the ability to deploy attention where needed. Like many other conditions it’s described by how it affects others, not how it affects those with it. It’s like saying someone who just broke their arm has a problem regulating their volume. Technical correct, but so far off base its harmful.
For me medication has had a profound positive impact on my life. Like getting glasses, but orders of magnitude more.
Please educate yourself. I was as ignorant as you on this topic, then, guess what, I found I actually have it myself and it's explained a lot of the suffering in my life. I am based in Europe FWIW.
EDIT: yikes, given the rest of your comments downthread, please do yourself a favour and do some research before repeating your preconceived and incorrect notions of something you don't know much about. It's fine not to know, it's not fine to think you know something you don't.
> then, guess what, I found I actually have it myself and it's explained a lot of the suffering in my life
Do you realize how weak your argument acutally is? You can now be invested in this believe and it's entirely fine with me but the hard reality remains the following:
Ergo, there is absolutely no scientific diagnosis for these imaginary pathologies, these patologies are diagnosed entirely via symptoms, which isn't necessarily a deal breaker for me, but when I read the list of symptoms, I just call bulshit sorry.
Are you actually trying to to say you think that you know me better than myself, and my suffering is bullshit? Holy shit dude, I'm not the only one that needs to re-evaluate their life. There's being stubborn and there's being a complete idiot that is talking out of their ass.
I have no interest in engaging further with you. Good day.
Hahaha it's almost impossible to get the damn drugs even if you actually need them. That's a very blinkered viewpoint. You've made an assumption and never had it disproved.
No doubt that we are not all cognitively equal, but I am a personally convinced it is a total scam invented to put people on drugs.