One can be against heavy-handed authoritarianism both at home and abroad, while still seeing the (quite distinct) shades of gray between the US security apparatus and the CCP, or between the CCP and North Korea, or between the US and the EU. Different governments and processes give different weights to due process and human rights vs bureaucratic efficiency and national security.
It should not be controversial to say that the CCP is more heavy-handed when it comes to government reach into private lives. That doesn't exonerate the US by any stretch; our government does a ton of shady shit, much of it arguably unconstitutional or extrajudicial, from warrantless wiretaps to drone executions of US citizens. But these make the news, which indicates 1) at least there is a relatively free press and 2) they are unusual enough as to be noteworthy, as opposed to commonplace and not discussed.
China doesn't share the same values as the West. The individual is deemphasized for the collective good, as defined by the current CCP elite of any decade. That doesn't mean their political system is inferior or superior -- our fragile "democracy" is threatening to devolve into civil war and take down the whole country, if not world with it -- but it IS a very different government on a different part of an authoritarianism <--> libertarianism continuum. It's not useful to equate them in this context just because the West does shady surveillance on its own citizens too.
> That doesn't exonerate the US by any stretch; our government does a ton of shady shit, much of it arguably unconstitutional or extrajudicial, from warrantless wiretaps to drone executions of US citizens. But these make the news, which indicates 1) at least there is a relatively free press and 2) they are unusual enough as to be noteworthy, as opposed to commonplace and not discussed.
Does what is reported by the media equate to the sum total of US malfeasance? I sometimes wonder if there is an Overton's Window for the public's appetite for corruption and exposure of systemic exploitation.
> China doesn't share the same values as the West. The individual is deemphasized for the collective good, as defined by the current CCP elite of any decade.
Could the 2 power structures have different approaches to how the individual is de-emphasised for collective good? Perhaps the US has a more diffused and opaque strategy of achieving the same end? I say this because Americans signal opportunity and the virtues of social agency to one another at all levels of society - but each time I travel there it seems like a social nightmare where few are actually contented once you get past the small talk.
The cultural gap is because America's political leadership is mostly lawyers and China's is mostly scientists and engineers. So people hailing from the latter background tend to think along more utilitarian and technical lines.
> It should not be controversial to say that the CCP is more heavy-handed when it comes to government reach into private lives
I'm not so sure that is true. If anything the US agencies seem to be quite a bit more technologically advanced, and I'd bet they sit on more undisclosed zero days than the CCP.
You're definitely correct in the difference in ideological values, and this difference might make up for the technological gap between the surveillance capabilities of the two governments, but I honestly would say it's still a 50-50 to me which one comes out on "top".
Can you explain/rephrase? Are you just talking about surveillance in particular? If so, I apologize for not being clearer... I meant heavy-handed as in forced disappearances, labor camps, censorship, behavioral modification, etc. (or in the US, forced reproduction/sterilization, manipulation of educational curricula, etc.)
China's recent attempts to curb the influences of their Big Tech and online gaming sectors come to mind, vs the fuck-all we've done with ours over the past couple decades. Soon Facebook is going to become a supranational organization that can drive new laws just by enraging enough people through algorithmic manipulation... our watchdogs are whimpering puppies against that kind of power. Our government is way weaker in terms of its ability to regulate business or personal behavior.
And for the common person, sure, our government might know everything we're doing (they all do, these days), but by and large it does not really care. The data it collects is often so disorganized even its own agencies don't know how to share it with each other, much less use it to systematically oppress -- for now. Our discourse and dissent is THRIVING, free speech is alive and well, and we have so much freedom we've self-organized into alternate reality bubbles, absent state guidance and with a deliberate disregard of expert opinion. China doesn't allow its society to fracture like that. Ours has no choice but to allow it to happen, and our elites encourage that sort of fragmentation because it makes for easier power-mongering at the top when the commoners are divided against each other.
The Chinese are oppressed by a heavy-handed, paternal government. Americans are oppressed by a government so weak that capital, charisma, and convenience govern our society, not our supposed laws or values. Other developed countries, democratic or not, tend to fall in between those extremes, from the UK & Australia closer to us (weaker gov) to the Canada & EU (stronger govs) to the Nordic and Asian democracies (stronger yet), yet China's is way way way stronger than all of those.
It should not be controversial to say that the CCP is more heavy-handed when it comes to government reach into private lives. That doesn't exonerate the US by any stretch; our government does a ton of shady shit, much of it arguably unconstitutional or extrajudicial, from warrantless wiretaps to drone executions of US citizens. But these make the news, which indicates 1) at least there is a relatively free press and 2) they are unusual enough as to be noteworthy, as opposed to commonplace and not discussed.
China doesn't share the same values as the West. The individual is deemphasized for the collective good, as defined by the current CCP elite of any decade. That doesn't mean their political system is inferior or superior -- our fragile "democracy" is threatening to devolve into civil war and take down the whole country, if not world with it -- but it IS a very different government on a different part of an authoritarianism <--> libertarianism continuum. It's not useful to equate them in this context just because the West does shady surveillance on its own citizens too.