Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Does this sentence change the meaning? The OP did not say they wanted Apple. They said they didn't want to be forced into Android. Of course, without Apple, in the absence of any other alternatives, you are forced into Android.



Yes it does. Clearly the OP wanted Apple, since otherwise they wouldn’t have made reference to ‘stopping Apple’ affecting them.

If they didn’t want Apple, they wouldn’t care if Apple was stopped.


No, it doesn't. The OP never said they wanted Apple. But without Apple you are forced into Android (because there's no other obvious choice) and this seems to be the problem.


In this explanation, you have neglected the meaning of the statement: “Please don’t stop them”.

Why would they care about Apple being stopped if they didn’t want Apple?

For your explanation to make sense you need to account for the meaning of both sentences of the paragraph the OP wrote.


> Why would they care about Apple being stopped if they didn’t want Apple?

Because without Apple you only have Android.


Sure, but if they didn’t want Apple this would be irrelevant.

If you don’t want Apple, you only have Android regardless of whether Apple is stopped or not.

That sentence is relevant to the meaning of the paragraph, and implies that they do want Apple.


> If you don’t want Apple, you only have Android regardless of whether Apple is stopped or not.

No, there are also GNU/Linux phones.


Quoting you: “Because without Apple you only have Android.”

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25350315


Yes, unless you know about alternatives. This is why I commented in the first place.


Right, but both of us believe that the OP didn’t know about the alternatives, so they clearly were saying they did want Apple.

If you want to claim that they would change their mind about wanting Apple if they knew about the alternatives, that is unlikely but not impossible.

However when they made the comment, they clearly did want Apple because otherwise they wouldn’t have cared about whether anyone ‘stopped Apple’.


They might also choose Apple, since otherwise it would be Android (i.e., even worse). Apple has a lot of drawbacks too after all. This is not what I would consider "wanting", it's a forced choice (just like choosing Android when Apple is "stopped" would be).


That’s not a real distinction.

There are always a finite number of platforms to choose from and they all always have drawbacks so any choice of platform can be arbitrarily deemed ‘forced’ by this logic.

The distinction therefore has no meaning, and doesn’t change the implication that the OP wanted Apple.


Duopoly is not the same as "a finite number of platforms to choose". Duopoly means both companies can restrict the rights of users and stay in business, despite the users may not like them.


That doesn’t change anything that supports the claim that this was a forced choice and therefore the OP didn’t ‘want’ Apple.

No finite number of businesses is guaranteed to produce a product to a given person’s liking, duopoly or not.

In any case, according to you, GNU/Linux phones are an option, so it’s not a duopoly.

Also, let’s note that you’ve conceded they they do want Apple, but are now trying to make the case that this isn’t a ‘real’ kind of want.


Yes, it does change something. I know many people who hate both companies, but choose Apple as a lesser evil. And yes, this is exactly not a 'real' kind of want.

Given that, and that the OP didn't say they like Apple, you cannot neglect a poosibility of them not wanting Apple.


This is a straight up fallacy. You are attempting to redefine want as like.

Want doesn’t imply like and you can want things that are available even if you’d prefer (or want even more) an option that isn’t. In fact this is always true of things we want.

It doesn’t invalidate the meaning of the word want.

Examples: “The prisoner wants to be released from solitary confinement back into general population.”, “Voters wanted a candidate who would reduce taxes.”, “Jack wants his father to beat up the bullies at school”.


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/want

What you mean here is "have to", not "want".


Nothing in that definition contradicts my usage. If you can see a semantic difference between their examples and mine, please explain it.

And, the only person saying that Apple is a forced choice, is you. That isn’t a given. It is a conclusion you want us to agree with.

This is an attempt at ‘affirming the consequent’, I.e. your argument assumes your conclusion to be true, which is a fallacy.

I have to assume you know this.


> Nothing in that definition contradicts my usage.

At the same time, nothing in that definition contradicts my usage, too.

> And, the only person saying that Apple is a forced choice, is you. That isn’t a given.

This is a given. When you only have just two options, and one of them is openly anti-privacy, anti-consumer, it's clear that the other option is a forced choice. I am far from the first person to say that about Apple.




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: