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Firefox 79 (hacks.mozilla.org)
379 points by caution on July 28, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 188 comments


Android version comes with a completely new design, and empty "What's new" section in Google Play gave no indication it's going be such a major change.

Even more importantly, it has overridden data collection preferences after the update. Check "Settings > Data collection". I had to disable "Marketing data" and "Experiments" toggles. Not cool!


I did get a: A major firfox update is coming! notification on my android phone that linked to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-android-upgrade...


I suspect that approximately no one reads that "What's new" section, and they know it. Even Google just leaves it with whatever happened to be in the field in summer of 2018 when they stopped updating it.


Maybe nobody reads it when they have automatic updates enabled, but I read the changelogs for every app that has them on F-Droid, even though their update flow is not optimized for this. For projects without changelogs, I'll sometimes check the commit messages.

Quality of changelogs has a big impact on how trustworthy I perceive a project to be. Releasing new versions without a (meaningful) changelog says that you expect blind trust from your users; that you expect them to update anyway regardless of the changelog content; or that you don't consider them able to evaluate whether updating is in their best interest -- in summary, "we know what's best for our users better than they do." Whether or not that's true, the attitude strikes me as vaguely paternalistic. It feels to me that a developer who thinks so little of their users would be more inclined to try and pull a fast one.

As an example, Signal has recently stopped writing changelogs for many of their beta releases, and it has affected my trust in them, and willingness to install said updates.

Let me be very clear: I am NOT saying lack of changelogs makes a developer less trustworthy. I AM talking about how they make me feel about them. I'm also well aware that this is an indirect measurement, so there's some variability and Goodhart's law applies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law).


FWIW I agree with you entirely, but I suspect we fit comfortably into the "approximately no one" set that I mentioned :)


Add me in that category. If the company/developer doesn't care enough to put one or two sentences about what's changing, they lose a portion of my trust. Even the annoying "bug fixes and performance enhancements" message is better than nothing. But the "don't worry about what's changing, just keep our app on autoupdate!" message is worse than nothing.


Google should lead by example, yet their "What's New" for Gmail and other apps just contains

WHAT'S NEW

• Bug fixes and performance improvements.


As someone who isn't that familiar with app store guidelines. Is it acceptable to link to the change log on the website?


Add me as well. Even just an automated list of commits would be better than nothing


Same here; indeed


I think OP's point is that it's a very small category and one HN users probably self-select for.


"We've smashed more bugs and tidied up a few things to make this release even more awesome. Update to the latest to enjoy the best Blablah!"

Actual updates: Version number bump. In my experience outside of the Big Tech releases the most egregious offenders seem to be Credit and Banking Apps with auto expiration. I loathe that feature, it's bitten me in low connectivity areas.


I do, and I cringe at the weasel-worded disinformation that usually ends up being put there. "We've fixed some defects and improved performance". Yeah, right. Running the updated app provides ample evidence to the contrary.

And then the vendors (and the security people) claim that automatic updates are fundamental, because otherwise people wouldn't install them. But maybe, just maybe, people don't want to install updates because they're being force-fed them, with no information about what to expect, and half of the time the update makes the experience worse.

The road to a better user/vendor interaction starts with providing meaningful changelogs and dropping the paternalistic attitude about updates.


Mostly agree. Here is a minor nitpick:

> dropping the paternalistic attitude about updates.

Now that we are trying to treat everyone equally, shouldn't we find a better word instead of blaming it all on the dads? ;-)

At least were I came from I cannot remember this attitude come from my dad.


Good point. It’s usually me trying to convince dad to update software, not the other way around.


He only identified as your dad. Really, your mum was running things.


Hehe: My dad used to refer to Mum as the CEO, they are both alive and after being married in well over 40 years they are still an example in being nice and respectful to each other.

I have adapted kind of the same attitude: As the one who brings most money to the table I demand a final say on anything major, but in reality my wife has found our last 3 cars, do the majority of the shopping etc, I mostly just rubberstamp and sign and keep telling my kids to respect their mum.

So far it has worked fine : )


It's infuriating! Netflix even goes as far as condescendingly saying "don't you worry about this kind of stuff, you worry about what to watch next". It's ridiculous, if you're gonna require patch notes they must either be part of the app review, or be optional from the start!


I strongly agree, especially since I hate 95% of the changes they make. Netflix has the most user hostile design of any media app that I use. I'm still a subscriber for now, but it will be the first one I cut.


> Netflix has the most user hostile design of any media app that I use

Personally I give that award to Spotify.


Yeah, Spotify feels like a really cluttered small shed in the backyard; like I have to step over all sorts of crap to get what I’m after, and every day the stuff is cluttered up in a slightly different way and somebody randomly hangs a big Michelle Obama poster or some other crap from the ceiling once in a while. Very annoying. Desktop app is mildly more tolerable than mobile.


Every Spotify update I wonder what they mess up next. 'Is it sorting or filtering this time?".


I suggest YouTube Music that's really awful.


Agree, this is the worst condescending bullshit I've ever seen. It's better to just leave empty

Uber are pretty bad at it as well


> Netflix.

In this one case they are right.

it was game-over to your opinion when you purchased their product and use a proprietary client to connect to the their proprietary servers.

If they want to break every single feature, while also denying access to older versions of the client, there's nothing you can do. Besides cancelling the membership, that is. But in this case there is nothing the changelog that would have helped you.

...all that is the complete opposite of Mozilla though.


I used to read these until every app stopped providing any useful information in there. Now I wait a while to install updates so I can read the new reviews. Apps updates are so risky, especially on iOS where you can't downgrade an app. More often than not an app upgrade will redesign the UI so I have to relearn it all, or remove free features and make them paid. "Bug fixes and performance improvements", yeah right :-(


On iOS, you can connect your device to a computer running iTunes 12.6.3[1] before updating an app to save the older IPA file to your computer. If you later decide to downgrade, you can delete the app and then restore the old IPA from your computer. Backup the IPAs separately from iTunes, as iTunes syncing can screw you if you're not careful.

Yes, this is a complete and total pain in the neck, but it has saved me in the past. Jailbroken devices can also use tweaks that allow downgrading right from the App Store.

---

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208079

P.S. There's actually one more way to downgrade apps—use a version of iTunes from before Apple introduced certificate pinning (iTunes 7 worked for me) and use Charles Proxy to edit the request so Apple gives you an old version. This worked for me as of last fall—but in this case, "pain in the neck" does not even begin to describe it. :)


"bug fixes and enhancements"


A lot of apps have A/B testing going on which makes updating this field difficult.


Not really.

""" Fix bug where sync could fail in Android 7 devices

Also, for a few users we rolled the following experimental changes:

  * X, Y and Z
"""


Discord has been really good with their changelogs but their changelogs in app stores are not as good as the ones in the beta channels. I liked their transparency when they introduced tabs in their Android app.


Android dev here : big fan of having a what's new containing "we improved things".

ALL the majors apps I am familiar with basically launch new features in the same way : first under a feature flag (e.g. the feature code is in the app but deactivated by default, we control its activation server side). We open up the feature to a small percentage of users, look at how it is behaving (bugs, crashes, impact on metrics) and then decide whether we want to open it up to more users or not.

With such a system where your version number does not mean much, at best release notes would be "we added a new feature, you might or might not see it".


What are you talking about? Google play update section is my most visited app during the day I think.

I love reading the what's new copy. Some companies put a lot of effort into it, like Signal/Slack (when I still had it installed) Some companies leave it empty which I think is very bad

But the worst are companies that put a constant what's new section like "we're constantly updating our app to make it better for you" bullshit - Uber. This just feels condescending to me.

Overall I think it's a prime channel to let people who are interested in your app to know ... what's new


> I suspect that approximately no one reads that "What's new" section, and they know it.

Sadly, people have been trained not to because devs always say, "Bug fixes and improvements".

Some people really do want to know what changed.


"We've been tweaking our app with the usual bug fixes and performance improvements"

Same thing on iOS to be fair.


Still not an excuse for laxism, even if Google does it to. They can do better than Google is they want to.


I read them. Many do.


Hey, I'm approximately a no one, and I read them!


I got a notification announcing the change.

Which is more appropriate than the one about Facebook.


Maybe more directly relevant but still very Not OK in my books. I get very few push notifications. Send me an email, put it on your blog, whatever - it's definitely not interesting enough for me to come even close to the "I want this pushed on top of whatever else I was doing" bar though.

Brave sent me a push notification this week too :( what browser should I switch to that doesn't try to exploit my 'engagement'


On Android, most apps include toggles in settings to disable different notification types. It's annoying that they're on by default, but at last you can usually disable them. In Firefox, you can turn off the "Product and feature tips" notifications in settings, and I bet that would prevent that kind of notification appearing. As a last resort, you can disable notifications entirely per-app at the OS level by digging into the Android settings.


It would be nice if Firefox added a separate category for "Political Call to Action" notifications. That way we wouldn't have to miss out on "Product and Feature Tips", which are occasionally helpful. A bit of a moot point for me since I'm using FF on a Nexus 7 that doesn't support that level of selective muting


This notification came through the 'Browser' channel, not 'Mozilla tricks and tips' like you might expect. So, congratulations Mozilla, I've blocked all of the 'Browser' notifications for your browser.


+1 . Android has great notification management features and they are worth exploring if you care about this kind of thing.


If I have to disable something it's because of "anger", but I don't want "anger" about Mozilla. I want Mozilla to be the good ones.


Interesting. Was it a regular Android notification or something custom in-app?

For me, there was no indication that this update was going to be any different from a minor bugfix they've rolled out a couple of days ago, until I've launched FF for the first time after the update and was a greeted by a full screen splash with the new version info.


Mine popped up in the notification area thingy at the top, like any other app notification. Clicking on it took me to a web page detailing the changes.

I've been running Nightly and Regular side-by-side for a while. I still use Regular the most, mainly because I find the new UI quite horrible to use. Nightly is clearly much smoother to use though.


> it has overridden data collection preferences

Uhhh, what the hell. Is that only a thing on Android or should I be checking all of my devices?


It's just on Android.


This sort of thing (updates as backdoor to get telemetry from people who explicitly opt out of telemetry) is becoming more and more prevalent. GitExtensions also does it - ostensibly a bug, too, but no hurry to fix it of course.

On the other side, Visual Studio forces me to open up a port and log in to MS account - tied to my real name and credit card - so it could upload my usage patterns every month, as a condition of the 'free' license. Perhaps that's the model we're converging towards, even for open source.


This is why I turned off auto update on Firefox, I knew at some point to fenix update was coming down the pipe, and I was not sure if they would bother to inform me of the change.

For once my paranoia paid off!


> I had to disable "Marketing data" and "Experiments" toggles. Not cool!

It would be nice if Mozilla adopted privacy-by-default rather than opt-out.


> Even more importantly, it has overridden data collection preferences after the update. Check "Settings > Data collection". I had to disable "Marketing data" and "Experiments" toggles. Not cool!

Oh ffs thanks for the heads up. Re-defaulting settings is a big reason I jumped ship from other companies' products.


In one update Mozilla has more or less destroyed my trust in them. They reset privacy settings and pushed out a major change that leaves virtually no add-ons available with no warning. I don't understand what they were thinking with this.


The ability to share a link and be presented with a menu that let you bookmark or send it to a different device -- gone.

Not particularly pleased with that.

I really sometimes grow very frustrated with Mozilla. In Cory Doctorow's _Eastern Standard Tribe_, some people work as saboteurs, planting really unpopular stupid ideas, and sabotaging clean functionality.

It feels like Mozilla is really rife with such characters.


Completely new design that still lacks pull to refresh. Honestly which developer hates that ui design aspect. It's been filed multiple times and more recently as a bug. at this point it rightfully is a bug


I hate pull to refresh.

I would like swiping on address bar to switch tabs, though.


Swipe to switch tabs has recently been added to the nightly releases:

https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/07/27/firefox-now-support...


I don't see what there is to hate. It's a very deliberate gesture


I don't know when the last time I refreshed a website on mobile was. It's entirely possible that it could be coded in such a way that I wouldn't notice or accidentally refresh when I'm simply trying to scroll to the top of a page, but I think it's more likely that I wouldn't intentionally use it ever, but I would trigger it accidentally on occasion


Unless you're scrolling a lagging Twitter view and can't tell if you're momentarily frozen or already at the top.


> Completely new design that still lacks pull to refresh.

Here's the thing... sometimes when you unload Fenix and then open a link from another app, the browser will fail to load... you get a white screen... and the page never loads, but at least you can pull to refresh, which does nothing... (press Back to get out of this state)

So the only time you can "pull to refresh" is when Fenix doesn't work!


I received a notification before 68.11.0 landed today warning me that an upgrade was coming and things would change. But it was only for 68.11.0 (current stable channel release on Google play store) and not 79.


today I just got a What's coming to Firefox Android popup


I'm confused, is the regular Firefox on the playstore now the same chromium/geckoview/word version that Firefox Preview was for awhile?


Yeah that's right. They're rolling it out. Funnily enough, they made Firefox Preview Firefox Nightly. The whole thing is really messy.


Is it still different from "Firefox Nightly" (previously named "Firefox Preview")?

This Firefox Nightly one uses the Gecko rendering engine, while the standard one uses Android's (or Google's?) Chrome Webview. Has this changed?


This is not correct. Both the old Firefox for Android(codename Fennec) and the new one(codename Fenix) use Gecko, Mozilla's rendering engine.

What has changed is that Fenix uses Gecko via https://mozilla.github.io/geckoview/


Thank you so much for that link. I think I got mislead by heise.de into thinking that this issue with Chrome WebView existed.

Since I have had issues in my app with Chrome/Android WebView, I will start experimenting with GeckoView. I didn't know it existed as a component. Thank you so very much!


Neither version of Firefox for Android uses a Chrome webview. The old one is built on Gecko directly, while the new one uses GeckoView.


You're thinking of either Firefox focus on Android or Firefox on iOS, both of which use the OS native renderer.


For me, Fenix on Android is the worst update ever. I use Firefox as my main browser on Android since almost 10 years and my whole mobile workflow depends on the awesome Tab Queue-feature (new tabs from other Apps like Twitter/Slack/Mails are opened in the background).

With Fenix, Mozilla decided to just abandon that feature. Issues are closed, it got removed from the feature list [1] and further questions are ignored. I fully understand that you can't keep every feature everywhere, but this was THE main benefit of Firefox (besides ublock) for me and if you look at GitHub/Reddit/Twitter I am not the only one.

Now I have to stick to an outdated browser because of an (for me) completely unnecessary, degrading update :/.

[1] https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/470


More missing features:

- Recently closed tabs (AFAIK "Undo close tab" currently fakes it by not actually closing the tab until the "Undo close tab" popup has disappeared)

- The Firefox share target that actually gave you a choice whether you'd like to open the page in Firefox directly, merely bookmark it or use Sync to send it to some other Firefox instance without having to actually open the page in Firefox first

- Add-on support that isn't limited to a few blessed "Recommended extensions"

- viewing local HTML files is not possible (although admittedly Google hasn't helped there, either, by vastly complicating file system access in recent Android versions, and their purported replacement method is absolutely unsuitable for HTML files that depend on additional resources such as images, styles, scripts, other HTML files etc., but in the end it was still Mozilla's decision to disallow it completely right now)

- about:config

- View source

- bfcache is broken

- cannot force-refresh a page

- the tab import from the previous versions drops all the session history of those tabs, i.e. it only imports the currently viewed page, but you can no longer go back or forward


Same. I blocked the auto-update for Firefox as soon as I saw that the feature hadn't landed in stable.

I hope some other browser picks it up. Would probably be a good fit for Vivaldi, which is meant for power-users who might go through link aggregators a lot.


I don't get what benefit they get from "lock[ing] and limit[ing] conversation to collaborators" on such issues. Why would you want to deliberately cut valuable user feedback? I mean I can't even put a "thumb up" on the issue!


For Wayland users DMA-BUF video textures are now used when the Video Acceleration API (VA-API) is enabled.

I personally saw a number of regressions[0] on Debian testing for video playback on the beta releases for 79, but it largely seems to have settled down now.

[0] particularly this one: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1643855

(Copied from my comment on the submission for the official release notes)


Firefox releases come out every 6 weeks. It helps to put something in the title that explains what's interesting about this one.


The original title is slightly better in this regard: “Firefox 79: The safe return of shared memory, new tooling, and platform updates”


It's actually every 4 weeks now!


>A new stable version of Firefox brings July to a close with the return of shared memory! Firefox 79 also offers a new Promise method, more secure target=_blank links, logical assignment operators, and other updates of interest to web developers.


A couple of details ...

the return of shared memory

> At the start of 2018, Shared Memory and high-resolution timers were effectively disabled in light of Spectre. In 2020, a new, more secure approach has been standardized to re-enable shared memory.

mondo details here https://hacks.mozilla.org/2020/07/safely-reviving-shared-mem...

more secure target=_blank links

> To prevent the DOM property window.opener from being abused by untrusted third-party sites, Firefox 79 now automatically sets rel=noopener for all links that contain target=_blank.


> Firefox 79 now automatically sets rel=noopener

Only took what, three years since that vulnerability was found?


Hopefully they changed the address bar back to be non-Chromeified.


I don't mind the narrower results but the address bar becoming larger when its focused is pretty weird.


Haven't used it in a while, but when I did it was always easy to switch the behavior (for a power user, and I think the omnibar is much more appealing to non power users as it's visually simpler, big, and easier to click — unifying the search and address bar is what you're talking about, right?).


Its not easy to switch back anymore and breaks a lot of functionality if you do. But its crazy that you have to accept serious UI/UX changes to get security fixes too.


What functionality does it break?

> But its crazy that you have to accept serious UI/UX changes to get security fixes too.

It is sad, but it basically seems par for the course for big, semi-commercial software. I don't like Mozilla, but I appreciate them making an alternative to the massive Chrome near-monopoly that's not only just as fast and lighter but competitively easy to use for normal people. I personally switched to Waterfox years ago, and Pale Moon not long after that. It receives some security fixes slightly after FF (they're fixed after Mozilla publishes the issue), but some of them are not applicable (http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml) . Overall, to me then Pentadactyl is worth worse than that, and I think you might love the UI.


> It is sad, but it basically seems par for the course for big, semi-commercial software

I totally get why they do it too, Im a big Mozilla fan and have been for a long time. Im glad there is browser competition, I love their take on Add-ons and allowing the user to make decisions for themselves. They are fighting the good fight, Im just expressing my opinions on things I don't like, but Im still going to use FF. I did stop upgrading with version 76 because it was just too much change and disruptive enough for me to downgrade and turn off the installer.

Ive never seen Pentadactyl, Ill check it out.


How?

"Preferences > Search > Search Bar" allows you to add back the separate bar. And you can toggle search suggestions in the address bar as well. I don't see how that breaks anything or that it is a "serious UI change".

And finally, the security implications of search suggestions in the address bar are debatable for the end user.


Im talking more about the megabar, not the unified search and address bar (which also has its own issues)

And the security patches for FF are bundles with the release, so if you want security fixes you also HAVE to take whatever UI or feature changes FF put into the browser. You shouldnt force users to relearn functionality for a piece of utility software in order to get fixes for CVEs. I understand its easier for them, but having to retrain people every couple of weeks because there is a new FF release isn't ideal.


> You shouldnt force users to relearn functionality for a piece of utility software in order to get fixes for CVEs.

Yes, exactly. The amount of UI/UX churn in Firefox is pretty crazy and I'm sure discourages some number of people from updating regularly. Mozilla "fixed" that issue on the desktop versions by completely removing the easy options for letting users decide for themselves when to update, rather than just making auto-updates the default.

I just don't get it. Does Mozilla have a problem with too many developers and needing to invent things to keep them occupied with?


I think they're referring to the browser hiding parts of the URL, the way Chrome does.

Unthinkingly following Chrome, Firefox started doing this too. To my knowledge, Firefox still defaults to doing this, but I could be mistaken.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/879926


> for a power user, and I think the omnibar is much more appealing to non power users as it's visually simpler, big, and easier to click

This is interesting, I always figured it was the opposite. Many casual users don't know or care much about the difference between a search bar and a url bar and just want to type something in and get a result. Personally though I prefer having separate search and url fields because the actions are more precise.

On more than a couple occasions I've tried to make a web search in Chrome's url bar that the browser insisted was a nonsensical url. I know there's a flag to enforce one behavior or the other, but I can't ever remember it and honestly don't feel like having to memorize magic words to get basic functionality working.


Another nice thing about having them separate is you can set the search bar to automatically open in a new tab, whereas the main url bar replaces the current page.


Do you have a keyboard short cut to get to the search field as well as alt-d to get to the url bar?


Ctrl-K goes to the search field.

It's easy to remember because the shortcut for the URL/Omnibar is more often cited as Ctrl-L.


That’s right. The Alt+d shortcut, that the GP is referring to, to reach the address bar is an old carryover from Internet Explorer.


Ctrl+E, same as in Outlook.


Highlights:

- Return of shared memory between parts of the same page (including web workers). Parallel processing becomes more efficient, good for complex apps and games.

- Time-traveling debugger of sorts: search for "restart frame".



Or not, because that's just FUD.

`dom.workers.serialized-sab-access` is the flag they've put in so that way they can disable concurrent execution of JS threads that share memory in case a novel cross-process attack shows up. Spectre is purely an in-process attack and the whole article that comment is attached to is about the work they did to enable shared memory while defending against Spectre. `dom.workers.serialized-sab-access` does not affect Spectre. It appears to be intended for preventing a novel cross-process attack from leveraging shared memory in other processes into becoming a high-resolution timer.

Also note that threads that have access to shared memory in Firefox 79 also have access to the full high-resolution performance.now(), and flipping dom.workers.serialized-sab-access doesn't affect that.


https://hacks.mozilla.org/2020/07/safely-reviving-shared-mem... explains how SharedArrayBuffer is being reenabled in a way that prevents it being used for Spectre attacks.


"The reference-types proposal is now supported. It provides a new type, externref, which can hold any JavaScript value, for example strings, DOM references, or objects."

This is exciting! It opens up faster possibilities for wasm apps


I wonder if we could try something new and have all discussion related to Mozilla or Firefox as a whole, including comparisons to other browsers, privacy, and how much battery it uses on macOS in just one thread so people can collapse it.


Post an “Ask HN” on this, perhaps, and request those who know more or have direct experiences across versions and browsers to weigh in?


No need, it comes up every time anyways. Just looking to find a more productive outlet for that discussion.


Every few versions I would check Firefox on macOS just to see if they make any progress with battery drain.

And... Firefox 79 with one active tab is taking 6x more energy than Safari with 20+ tabs.

https://imgur.com/a/LyhnbKZ

Maybe it is better on other OSes, but on macOS nothing beats Webkit in terms of performance.

Not to mention the home page bloat - Firefox is starting to look like cnn of browsers.


In your screenshot I see some extensions in Firefox. Please go to about:performance and see the energy impact of your extensions.

I just compared clean Firefox install with Safari on macOS and they both show energy impact 0.1


Looking at about:performance when browser is idle, it doesn't do anything, but as soon as I start doing something with tabs, some extensions start to do some work. If a little bit more power draw is the price to pay for having no ads while browsing (with ublock origin), I am willing to pay it.


What if you could have both webkit and ublock? :wink: get in touch if you want to try the alpha of what we are building.


One thought, cant one reason to the difference when you checked be that Firefox is the active application and have focus? And do you maybe have any addons in Firefox? Extensions can give bigger energy impact, you can check that under about:performance. Anyways I think both have low energy impact even if safari happens to be abit lower. Personally I use Firefox on mac and can many times have 100+ tabs and it works without any problems.

It could also be mention that Firefox now use macos coreanimation that drastically improved Firefox battery performance [1]. So give it a real test again, Firefox is really awesome and needs all support :) We need bigger diversity among webbrowsers, not just chromium based.

[1] https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/dramatically-red...


The active application was "Activity monitor" as you can see on the screenshot. I did indeed have two Firefox extensions active (vs 7 on Safari). I disabled them and got same results. But everyone should be able to easily perform a similar test for themselves and compare.


Safari has been frustratingly aggressive for me. I was working with a fairly heavy Google Spreadsheet and Safari would need to refresh/reload every time it lost focus.

Between Chrome, Firefox, Safari and their plugins it's a dance to get the desired behavior and efficiency. Lazy loading of pages (when you have multiple tabs and close/reopen) can either be really efficient (because they don't even load the page) or annoying (if you don't have Internet or they change/remove the page when you go back to read it).


There has been progress. Firefox is pretty close to Chrome in power usage on macOS now. Safari is still streets ahead of every other browser on power usage though.


Is the in-house software just better at fitting the power usage metrics, or does the battery actually last longer with Safari when you let it physically drain out?


The latter. I'm having trouble finding an unbiased benchmark right now, but Safari is quite a bit less of a battery hog than either Chrome or Firefox.


Ah, I had no idea this was a problem for Firefox in particular. One thing I've noticed is my browser uses a lot of energy (fans turn on) when I get on a video call through the browser, and now I'm curious if switching to Chrome or Safari for calls can resolve that.


For me, the big drain was running Google Chat in Firefox. I switched running GChat using Google’s app and that solved the problem for me. Now the only big drain is WebEx. (This is a work laptop, and my work uses GSuite and WebEx.)


The "Energy Impact" values in that screenshot are almost all the same as "% CPU", so energy impact is basically just computed as % CPU?

You're complaining that FF is using 1.3% CPU while in the foreground?


It was in the background, same as Safari. Still the point was, whatever the cpu usage was, it was 6x more than Safari, which when using laptop battery and browser running almost all the time, means a world of difference.


home page bloat? person woman man camera tv?

Care to share more details?


I mean this:

https://imgur.com/a/aYutjsO

Having to see mentions of Nazi camps on my home page or seeing a notification for Facebook containers although I don't use Facebook. All that bloat being enabled by default is troublesome and goes against very principles Mozilla advocates.


Right, you mean the content Mozilla shoves into new tab. I disabled this the first time I saw it. Not going down in the browser I use. Should it ever be impossible to disable, I'll switch browser in a blink.


It is two clicks to remove that entire "Highlights" section.


I think you missed the point of “behavior enabled by design”. Of course I can remove it, as can someone who just stepped into a pile of poo clean their shoes. We’d just prefer that the pile of poo didn’t exist by default.


No "principle Mozilla advocates" says that the start page should default to blank.


It should not default to ads, at least.


Very little of the content on the default start page is ever paid advertising. AFAIK it's a few of the Highlights, sometimes.


So they look like ads, which erode trust from users, and they don't even get paid for them. That just makes it more stupid.


They're mostly thumbnails of Web sites people have recently visited or visited frequently, i.e. they look familiar. I don't think they look like ads to most people, and I certainly wouldn't conclude they do without actual data.


So... disable it?


I actually like some of the pocket articles on the new page tab. I do have to watch out that I don’t get distracted to often :)


By default, the Firefox new tab page has ads and sponsored content, which neither Chrome nor Safari have. This "feature" certainly decreases trust in Firefox as the more privacy-friendly option, although it's easy to disable for experienced users.


Why would adverts decrease your trust in Firefox in terms of privacy?


Targeted advertisements like the ones built into Firefox's new tab page are the exact kind of thing that privacy-conscious people like to block. When I recommend Firefox to a less-technical friend or relative and suggest that they use uBlock Origin or another powerful ad and tracking blocker, it's awfully ironic that the default new tab page is full of targeted advertisements. It's purely perception, of course, but it's the kind of thing that almost certainly isn't helping Firefox compete against Chrome.


Thumbnails are buggy. Auto complete doesnt work in some cases. No tab reordering, open in new tab order is weird. Home page is worse. No addons... lots of other small annoyances.

And worst of it, no about config. I dont like the direction mozilla is taking. Do they have any reasoning for no abour config.

This is quite a downgrade, I think I am switching to another browser on mobile.


Completely rewamped Android.

Feels very snappy. Upgrade was a breeze. Only one addon that didn't work, hope full addon support is back soon.


All of the add-ons I use are now unsupported. It's extremely frustrating and unwelcome for them to break things like this.


Eh.. They had to: probably they will add more robust support of extensions in the future, but for now they had to re-implement some basic browser functions + add something new to attract new customers (like "Collections").


For me, "Restart stack frame" is probably the biggest impact I've seen in a while.


Same question as the last time [0]: I see the benefit of wasm extensions and I see how to enable them in "manual" compilation (for rustc, -C target-feature=+bulk-memory), but I didn't yet find a documented way of using them in wider used setups like wasm-pack. I'd love to try recompiling a full project with these features, but I just can't find out how to do it.

The release notes say "The wasm-bindgen documentation includes guidance for taking advantage of externref from Rust", but I didn't yet find anything about it there either.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23690406


I would hope the key presses required to use the native search among opened tabs had changed.

- Ctrl-L to go to the address bar

- release Ctrl (otherwise, the next keypress fail)

- Shift-6 to type "%" in the address bar

- space

- [your query and hit tab/enter to navigate results]

The last bullet is a close to ideal, native search among open tabs and make it so smooth to find an opened tab among dozens. But the key presses necessary to get there? Who can use that without weekly hospital stays for finger RSIs?

I love firefox. If someone, somewhere reads this, please please please think of simpler key presses to use this nice, already built functionality.

(I know non-native extensions provide similar feature. But native would be so cool and stable, especially that it's already built).


If you're on Windows, you can do something like this with AutoHotkey:

    ; Make alt-q in Firefox type ctrl-l followed by "% "
    #IfWinActive ,ahk_class MozillaWindowClass
    !q::Send, ^l`%{Space}
    #IfWinActive


What keyboard layout are you on that puts % on 6?


That was Shift+5, not 6. Thanks for pointing that out :)


Tip: You don’t need to type the space. For example, you can search for “%ycom” to see open https://news.ycombinator.com/ tabs.


In 78 they've added a persistent Google search as a top line in URL bar drop-down list. I couldn't find it documented anywhere neither in release notes nor in help topics.

Does anyone by chance knows how to remove it?


about:preferences#search

aka Menu > Options | Search | Search Suggestions > Provide Search Suggestions


No, it's not suggestions. Suggestions are disabled.


A lot of good WebAssembly stuff in there. WASM threads, bulk memory ops are big performance wins, and reference types huge for DOM interoperation.


Firefox 80 is scheduled to come with vaapi for X11 which will be a major release for those with distro like PopOS or those that use i3wm


This update has, for the first time in over 10 years, rendered Firefox pretty much unusable for me on Ubuntu: Both the URL and the search bar are completely broken - neither autocomplete nor searching via google/DDG works. The only way to open a URL is to type it in full. Not cool. I guess I should move to ESR.


does "better source map for SCSS" means that devtools will show scss variables ? big if true


Doesn't contain a fix for the tearing on Windows 10 with Hardware Graphics Scheduling.


It's a small thing, but I have found the usage of the logical and/or/null to be much cleaner.

a ??= 3;

(It would be even nicer if it could mean the same thing in PHP.)


Sweet! This update fixes the issue where you weren't able to play videos on Firefox 78 with the MacOS Big Sur Beta.


Anyone using something other than Firefox or chrome?


Safari. Works great.


Meh, that requires trusting Apple. No thanks.


Vivaldi. Best vertical tabs and general customization support out there, bar none. Gestures too, for those who use them.


I like Vivaldi. It's a great idea. But the UI is sluggish and sometimes (very rarely) glitchy. I'm on the fence until they make it more responsive.


Edgium. I like it. Switched from Brave some time ago because they couldn't stop pulling shit off.


What do you mean about brave?


Adding ads and stupid features. For me the breaking point was when they added an interface to buy crypto on the new tab page.


It's funny how any involvement with cryptocurrencies is now an immediate red flag. Is there any use for cryptocurrencies in 2020 that isn't either an outright scam or a pump-and-dump scheme?


I don't think Brave's attempts to integrate BAT are either a scam or a pump-and-dump. I think they're sincerely just trying to figure out how to move "the internet" to a revenue model that doesn't necessitate holding its users hostage.

Every decentralized or censorship-resistant network gets dragged down to the worst of its adopters in the public consciousness (not entirely by accident IMO). It's sad, but should be acknowledged as par for the course at this point. If you're not going to fall into line, expect the power brokers to mix you up with the worst of 'em.


Bitcoin is a Hedge against government inflation and unlike gold, nuclear chemistry proof.

The rest of the coins... Not really. Maybe privacy coins might be useful.


The summary section could use work.


> Firefox 79.0 released with master password renamed to primary password

Jeez...


Have they reverted the godawful address bar change yet?


Firefox, current, is really slow on video rendering. Youtube on 1080p kinda freezes at times. Same video works perfectly in Chrome

Im on Win10, this happenened on win8.1 aswell.


Are you sure it's not just YouTube? Alphabet's arbitrarily changed YT's behaviour based on the browser's UA string in the past, and used deprecated APIs only implemented in Chrome.


Youtube was updated to the v1 quite some time ago with a fresh Polymer version

>Polymer.version

3.4.1


This isn’t generally true. You might want to try disabling WebM to see if it’s something like falling back to software rendering.


meanwhile chromium has async stack traces since 2017 https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/05/devtools-r...


TIL. Thanks for sharing.

I also didn't know Chrome could emulate different levels of slow network.


HN or how to get downvoted by stating basic sourced facts.


I’ve tried Firefox about once a year for the past five years and always immediately go back to chromium. Scrolling is always broken out of the box on all platforms I’ve tried (Linux and macOS).

Edit: trying again, the macOS track pad seems ok but scroll wheel behavior is different. Firefox requires 2-3 times the scrolling distance and transitions slowly to the final scroll destination. Chrome does not.

Edit 2: I’m almost positive it’s smooth scrolling. Some people hate it and some like it. This reddit thread sums up: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/5zoa1t/do_you_use_...


I'm so confused by this comment. You downloaded Firefox on MacOS and scrolling was broken? Scrolling itself is always broken on Firefox on all platforms?

Considering that scrolling clearly isn't broken for Firefox users (I think Mozilla would notice), doesn't that point to the fact that it's probably something on your end and not Firefox?


For what it's worth elastic bounce when scrolling to top / bottom of website has never been supported which feels very wrong on macOS. Mozilla doesn't seem to care or not care enough to patch: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1124108

From what I can tell scrolling works fine and speed can be adjusted for personal needs in macOS.


I'm assuming that you are referring to smooth scrolling behavior, since it doesn't feel quite right to me.

options > browsing >

   then uncheck smooth scrolling option
edit: It would be nice if FF had a slider to adjust the speed. The default smooth scrolling for me is too slow (my eyes jump ahead which makes me feel nauseous).


Never encountered this, same platforms. What do you mean by broken?


If I were to guess I think it has something to do with “smooth scrolling”. The behavior is scroll the mouse wheel three clicks/times to move the page.

Expected behavior is move the wheel at all and the page moves.

Also on a track pad the page should move in sync with your fingers. It doesn’t in Firefox.


That’s what happens on a clean install on Windows or MacOS. You might want to reset any custom settings and remove any extensions to see if it still reproduced.


> Also on a track pad the page should move in sync with your fingers. It doesn’t in Firefox.

It does just fine for me on GNU/Linux.


I use it on macOS. Scrolling is not broken; it is exactly as in Chrome.


Try disabling smooth scrolling in about:preferences


the scrolling is also pretty bad on Windows. Chromium based browsers also have gestures which I use often.




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