> isn't giving presentations to explain your ideas - sometimes to people you don't really know - actually a significant part of the job?
For many engineering positions it is not. There are loads of shops where the developers, even senior developers, mostly just write code. I have hired many of them and put them to work successfully building stuff while I deal with the meetings.
> If I were conducting an interview and discovered that "public" speaking on the order of a few people in a conference room was extremely difficult for you
And yet I worked very successfully as a junior developer for a couple of years before I ever had to attend a meeting like that. Among the other 100 devs in the shop, I was considered a top talent at coding. That's not to brag but to point out that I was adding lots of value to the company without having to attend meetings with people from other departments. My manager did that. My manager did not code, although he could if he wanted to. In fact at that company they created a separate path for highly talented engineers who wanted to continue coding but wanted to avoid management and meetings. That was a couple of decades ago and less common, but I think it's a lot more common now.
And the fact that I can now publicly speak in front of hundreds of people should hopefully encourage you that it's something people can learn if they want to. Some people don't want to. There are roles for them too.
Individual Contributor, used to contrast with "Manager". Point being, my main job is to design systems and write code, but I still have to do some of the organizational stuff sometimes.
>There are loads of shops where the developers, even senior developers, mostly just write code.
Okay, so your experience is different from mine. I'm surprised that there are places where this is really not a meaningful job requirement, and I've never worked at one, but I believe you.
>it's something people can learn if they want to
Sure... but so is coding. Part of the point of an interview is to see what skills and traits you already have. If you're missing some, that can be balanced against the ones you do have - it's not a dealbreaker, but it is still a negative.
>Some people don't want to. There are roles for them too.
Again, not where I work. Engineering, even at relatively junior levels, includes collaboration and explaining your work. You can't just say you don't want to do that - or rather, you can, but you'll have no upward mobility and be managed out pretty quickly.
Isn't there just a bit of condescension in that title? It always sounds to me like something invented by a manager to be dismissive of someone who doesn't manage anyone.
I never got the vibe that "IC" was intended to be dismissive, or intended to be a pejorative or anything. I think it's more of an HR thing, because the distinction between IC vs Manager usually affects compensation and blah, etc. Whether or not that should be the case is a separate question.
I always assumed the term just leaked out of the HR world and into the general parlance.
If you're in a place where an IC can potentially make half a million or million dollars a year and drive some very interesting project work and be highly respected, no.
If you're in a place where not making it into manager track puts a very low ceiling on earning potential and respect, then yes it can be condescending.
> isn't giving presentations to explain your ideas - sometimes to people you don't really know - actually a significant part of the job?
For many engineering positions it is not. There are loads of shops where the developers, even senior developers, mostly just write code. I have hired many of them and put them to work successfully building stuff while I deal with the meetings.
> If I were conducting an interview and discovered that "public" speaking on the order of a few people in a conference room was extremely difficult for you
And yet I worked very successfully as a junior developer for a couple of years before I ever had to attend a meeting like that. Among the other 100 devs in the shop, I was considered a top talent at coding. That's not to brag but to point out that I was adding lots of value to the company without having to attend meetings with people from other departments. My manager did that. My manager did not code, although he could if he wanted to. In fact at that company they created a separate path for highly talented engineers who wanted to continue coding but wanted to avoid management and meetings. That was a couple of decades ago and less common, but I think it's a lot more common now.
And the fact that I can now publicly speak in front of hundreds of people should hopefully encourage you that it's something people can learn if they want to. Some people don't want to. There are roles for them too.