I agree with you on the point you're getting at. Really anything that can be potentially logged due to a bug or accessed by a human may as well be considered the same as perpetual, in my opinion.
The difference is I trust Apple enough to turn off Siri on my phone and feel safe nothing is being broadcast online or stored locally for another app to access.
Is this guaranteed? Hell no. I also don't read the source code of every open source program I use (and even if I do I'm aware people exist much smarter than me who can obfuscate their malicious code).
Apple's business strategy, their history of actions, and their security system make me feel confident enough in _assuming_ my voice never reaches their servers and cannot be turned in by an app without explicit permissions. That last bit is also important. Like the Android Facebook background audio "bug", even if it is really a bug, to me it's no different.
Lastly even if Amazon were trustworthy about not listening when they say and not accessing voice data they shouldn't, I don't trust the platform very much. Quick idea, can you create a multi-turn alexa skill that after the first turn pretends Alexa is finished but it is actually actively recording and waiting to fake a response to "Alexa! <do other skill>"? Personally I don't know, don't have the source to check, and I wouldn't really believe any amazon engineer coming in here and saying "It's impossible to exploit". (Even if my 5 minute idea is impossible multiply that times thousands of malicious people spending much longer trying to exploit it)
edit: Don't mean to imply an Apple is impossible to hack or exploit. Just that they take a more active stance and have the history to back it up.
> But once I saw how smartphones were being designed as surveillance devices, I refused to play.
Get a FOSS Android phone. I have a OnePlus 7 Pro, previously a Galaxy S5 (the newer Galaxys also work as long as you don't get the US model); it runs LineageOS (stock Android). I chose not to install the Google Play packages. I get apps from F-Droid, which is a repository + package manager that builds and distributes FOSS applications.
It pings time.android.com for NTP, and I think it also uses a Google server to check when you're behind a captive portal WiFi. The default dialer/SMS/Contacts app have some options in the settings that will connect to proprietary APIs; I don't think they talk to Google but if you do then you can replace them with applications from F-Droid. But other than that it's 100% clean.
In the system settings I can completely block applications from using the network. LineageOS also adds Privacy Guard, which lets you deny permissions to applications. I need WhatsApp to communicate with some people, but I have denied it contact permissions so it gets fed an empty address book. I also have it set to require confirmation from me to use the camera or microphone.
I also installed AdAway from F-Droid, which is a DNS-based firewall like Pi-Hole. From F-Droid I also got Firefox with uBlock Origin, K-9 mail client, NewPipe as a YouTube frontent, OsmAnd+ for maps/navigation, DavDroid to sync contacts & calendar with Nextcloud, the Nextcloud Notes app for synced notes, and a OpenVPN client to prevent AT&T from spying on me and injecting tracking identifiers into my internet usage.
The only real threats in the system are the proprietary driver blobs and the risk of Google putting evil code into AOSP instead of limiting it to their proprietary services - but I hope the LineageOS team would be able to catch that.
If you're going to say I can't care about my privacy in relation to Alexa because of some other unrelated privacy concern then yes, it would be a whataboutism and I would call you out on it, as I would in any debate, because that is how civilized discourse works. If you have a genuine, logical argument I'd like to discuss. Unfortunately most people on this site seem to like downvoting relevant points they feel emotional about and arguing without actually making any effort to understand anyone else's point.
shouting "logical fallacy" is not how debate works.
using knowledge of fallacy to illustrate the underlying logical error in someones argument is how debate works. you should never actually need to reference a fallacy out loud during debate.
If there was more to your initial comment I could have said more, but you essentially said 'whatabaout you having a smartphone' and that was it. The sole argument was fallacious, and there was nothing more I could reply to...
I didnt say that. That was someone else. I think everyone else understood the implication of "but you already have a camera and microphone in your pocket, what additional privacy violation does this cause above and beyond everyone's phones." The poster likely thought it didnt need to be spelled out.
> involves charging your accuser with whatever it is you've just been accused of, rather than refuting the truth of the accusation
Thats not what just happened. "You accuser" didnt accuse you of being a privacy violation.
Smart Phone was brought up as an EXAMPLE of having a microphone and camera in your pocket, connected to the internet. It wasnt a change in subject from tracking devices.
>Although you are clearly very confused, because whataboutism is a logical fallacy....
I believe you are the confused one. You changed the subject to a fallacy discussion, by mentioning whataboutism. Its like changing the conversation to fruit by mentioning bananas. Obviously banana is a fruit.
>By carrying a smartphone I'm not allowed to care about my privacy?
to quote you "instead of just in the privacy of my own home." no one said you arent allowed to be concerned about privacy, but thats not what you said. the "hivemind" disagreed with your PREMISE that you arent currently tracked and that this product would suddenly create tracking ability that doesnt already exist. Its the "instead of just in my home" part people are taking issue with, because the "just in my home" reality doesnt exist.
Which literally changes nothing. It's an item on your body with a microphone. So just like your phone, your headphones, etc. It's nothing even particularly new.
Google glass, at least, had a camera that significantly changed the privacy equation. These change nothing.
