I hate the complete lack of transparency in garments. We need to know all the details, including the weave?
For someone that sweats a lot in hot & humid climates, why does one white cotton shirt show the sweat, and another doesn't? Why do I feel cooler with a thicker cotton shirt than a thinner one?
The weave is very important, but is one of the easier things to determine. For example, a voile (though uncommon in men's shirts) is much lighter than a moleskin though you would never find a summer shirt made of the latter. As someone who also sweats freely, I sympathize with you. If wearing a single shirt, I tend to go with a darker color for that reason. If wearing a dress shirt, I'll always wear an undershirt with it. There was a semi-famous US Army study about thicker cotton shirts feeling cooler in the heat since they can absorb more of your sweat than a thinner shirt. I can't attest to its accuracy. I wear them so I don't look like I just came in out of the rain.
I can attest to the sweaty undershirt argument. It was a revelation for me. The other really strange thing is that if you have a sweaty undershirt, you will sweat less because you will be cooler. It's really amazing.
> We need to know all the details, including the weave?
You don't. In fact I'd argue that having access to the details makes you more likely to both choose the wrong garment and rationalize that wrong choice.
> For someone that sweats a lot in hot & humid climates, why does one white cotton shirt show the sweat, and another doesn't?
Branch one of this answer includes all kinds of details about thread count, thread length, thread quality, and all kinds of other details for you to get lost in.
Branch two: don't wear cotton in hot & humid climates.
> Why do I feel cooler with a thicker cotton shirt than a thinner one?
Branch one includes all kinds of wonderful details about the way in which cotton wicks moisture but does a poor job of evaporating that same moisture. (Your thin cotton shirt sucks up your perspiration to arrive at the "moisture traffic jam" much sooner than your thicker one.)
Branch two: don't wear cotton in hot & humid climates. Synthetic, bamboo, and even light merino tee shirts will all perform so much better that the difference between thin and thick cotton will become thermal noise by comparison (pun!).
Seriously, don't learn the details. I can't tell you how many times I've had pointless conversations about the differences between various proprietary waterproof breathable membranes to people who are using the rain jacket exclusively in the Southeastern U.S. (Hint: none of them will do a decent job of being breathable there. So just pick one, unzip the vents under the arms and get on with your day.)
I seriously had to LOL at this. When I first moved to Japan, I was clueless. I live in a particularly hot and sunny part of Japan. During the rainy season, we sometimes have rain every day for a month (like this year :-P). It took having my clothes literally rot on the line before I understood this point. My predecessor (government program rotates foreigners to teach English) was famous for going to events with a shirt stained green from mould.
It's the very first thing I tell people when they come here: don't wear cotton. There are much better natural fibres for this weather. You can also have cotton synthetic blends and they won't rot. The clothes that work well in the UK and most parts of North America can't stand up to 2 months of 30 C plus at 90 percent relative humidity.
Having said that, there are a lot of traditional cotton clothes in Japan and I have found that they are surprisingly comfortable. However, they are expensive. Probably those details you are talking about ;-) Practically all of the cheap clothes I know of are synthetic blends.
I'd give one other small piece of advice: buy clothes in areas that are famous for the weather you want to feel good in. Anybody wants a nice, not-bulky, warm winter coat: buy it in Canada. You want a nice summer suit for 100 degree F weather? Taiwan. You want a sweater for those cold rainy days? Scotland.
> I'd give one other small piece of advice: buy clothes in areas that are famous for the weather you want to feel good in. Anybody wants a nice, not-bulky, warm winter coat: buy it in Canada. You want a nice summer suit for 100 degree F weather? Taiwan. You want a sweater for those cold rainy days? Scotland.
That's a nice start-up idea.
I can't afford to travel the world to do my seasonal shopping.
> I'd give one other small piece of advice: buy clothes in areas that are famous for the weather you want to feel good in.
For a summer commute from SF to Sacramento I'll bring a waxed cotton raincoat. After all, that's what all the people wear in that city that is famous for rain.
Or I can take a deep breath, admit to myself that I'm not a domain expert, and forge a relationship with someone who is.
This expert will use clues from the relationship to help me choose a garment. Maybe they find out I'm generally never in the elements for greater than 5 minutes. So they show me this dinky little windbreaker that is so light it can actually fit in my pocket. They explain how it isn't actually waterproof but it has a treatment that makes water bead off, and the ease of shaking it off and small size might be a decent tradeoff given my situation.
So now I'm carrying vastly less weight with a useful garment. I never would have chosen it on my own because my non-expert brain fixated on the word "waterproof" as if it were a boolean. Meanwhile, the domain expert measured the time it takes for water to penetrate the seams and found it plenty long enough to meet my needs.
> Anybody wants a nice, not-bulky, warm winter coat: buy it in Canada.
The current trailblazer is almost certainly Patagonia's micro puff jacket which uses a synthetic fill that AFAICT reaches the warmth-to-weight ratio of down. (Added potential benefit that the synthetic fill would continue to insulate if wet while down won't.)
Patagonia is a U.S. company, so you missed out on the latest greatest by choosing based on country conditions.
I'm being super finicky, and of course there are Canadian-made non-bulky winter jackets. But this thread started with someone wearing cotton in the summer heat. Such a person can just as easily buy a cotton hoody in Canada.
Way too simplified. You don't think I gave up wearing white cotton shirts in hot climates? Of course I did, but that's because there's not enough information to judge shirts off the rack aside from the "100% cotton" label.
Anyways I don't need the nitty gritty details, but there should be some sort of consumer friendly information that would make it easier to judge things. Not necessarily what the experts use.
What's even more frustrating is that its impossible to find even a brand that uses good quality fabrics all the time. Even expensive outdoor gear can be hit and miss.
Hope is not completely lost. Some crazy Japanese companies produce stuff with unbelievably good fabrics all the time. E.g. The Real McCoy's, Buzz Rickson, Studio D'Artisan and a few others.
For cotton, many of their models are loopwheeled which is a fantastic low tension fabric that ages really well. All they are doing is to copy American techniques from the golden age of workwear and sportswear. In fact, they try to produce perfect reproductions.
Modern streetwear brands like Outlier and Acronym are also really good.
I love Ventile cotton as it's natural and fairly rain resistant. You can find several brands that use Ventile made by Stotz in Switzerland in coats. For pants, if you don't like denim German Ripsmoleskin is fantastic.
Finally, knitwear from Inis Meain and SNS Herning is machine produced but absolutely fantastic. Expensive but not insane prices like some superb Italian brands.
All these brands I mentioned are really high quality. Plus the production process and materials employed are really transparent. There are many others with different styles I would also trust like Merz B Schwanen, Maison Margiela or SEH Kelly.
I checked out some of the brands you mentioned, and holy crap they're expensive. Outlier has 3 t-shirts on offer for $300, shirts from most of those brands average $150, Acronym are selling jackets for $1k+....
I'm expecting a reply on the line of "quality comes at a cost" but I've got shirts over a decade old that have no visible signs of wear and cost a tenth of what these cost.
The shorts and pants are where Outlier really shines (okay, and button-down shirts), they’re the best value. the ~$100 Ultrafine t-shirt is luxurious as hell but then you’ll want to wear it every day and it’s pretty delicate, being wool. Their pants definitely uphold the “quality comes at a cost” argument.
Also there are luxury brands with questionable quality that will also sell you a t-shirt for $100 that doesn’t have the same thought into materials or build as Outlier, etc.
We do exist ! Our selection is not that large yet, but we are growing it steadily and slowly, to make sure that the garments we choose work for the product.
We exclusively use the best quality garments we can find(within reason of course) That means only using Supima Cotton for cotton and Merino Wool for wool products. We even get our fabrics knitted and dyed at a place we trust near or production facilities in Portugal.
I'm not totally sure if that part of our business is totally unique, and i'd imagine that many small brands go to the same lengths to ensure the best quality but maybe you should just stop looking at large clothing companies when searching for quality.
Pretty funny reading an article like this on HN :)
Loro Piana cotton polo shirts are definitely not worth the price, the 645$ cotton/linen "jeans" definitely are.
Nothing by Loro Piana is bad, lots of the stuff is overpriced but many things are quite reasonable. After the LVMH acquisition they regularly offer pretty great discounts too.
It still has so many handmade parts in the process and stuff that sound simple when you don't understand it like sizing is actually very complex (and not solved IMO).
To answer your question, even between 2 100% cotton shirts, depending on the density of the cotton used, its type, and the way it is weaved, 2 cotton shirts can be radically different.
For someone that sweats a lot in hot & humid climates, why does one white cotton shirt show the sweat, and another doesn't? Why do I feel cooler with a thicker cotton shirt than a thinner one?