> The observation does nothing to further the debate because it assumes a broad unified opinion about a group of individuals
These objections are exhausting. Yes, there are exceptions to every generalization. Generalizations are the only way we can reasonably describe large groups of people. In this case, the individuals in question are more or less defined by this shared opinion, so it's definitely a fair, constructive observation.
> Do third wave lesbians want chivalry?
I don't know what a "third wave lesbian" is. Also, to be clear, I doubt any third-wave feminist would say they want chivalry; but when you look at the things they advocate for ("believe all women", etc) and how they treat each gender, it looks like chivalry taken to extremes.
> Could just live in a more courteous and gallant world and leave out the gendered nonsense?
Sure we can, but it's not consistent with a traditional or third-wave-feminist worldview. Note that this isn't a criticism of any particular worldview.
> Also the idea that a specific gender is inherently moral / immoral is also ridiculous generalization and shouldn't be made my anyone.
Sure. I'm only making observations about different worldviews, not prescribing any particular worldview.
It is exhausting, but isn't not an objection, it is fact. You have to meet people where they are if you ever hope to know them. Using a single label, in this case 'third-wave', to describe someone is so incomplete and I would disabuse you of thinking about people this way.
"believe all women" is a slogan. Slogans are handy because they save time. They are easy to chant. They build unity. If you were to ask 100 'feminists' what does believe all women mean to you, there would be many answers.
> Sure we can, but it's not consistent with a traditional or third-wave-feminist worldview.
I never said I wanted a traditional or a third wave world, just kinder; there are other options.
> It is exhausting, but isn't not an objection, it is fact. You have to meet people where they are if you ever hope to know them. Using a single label, in this case 'third-wave', to describe someone is so incomplete and I would disabuse you of thinking about people this way.
"Generalization" doesn't mean that you believe the observation is true for exactly every individual in the group. That a generalization doesn't hold for every individual in the group doesn't imply that generalization isn't useful. Now can we be done errantly nitpicking well-established semantics?
> If you were to ask 100 'feminists' what does believe all women mean to you, there would be many answers.
Many variations of the same theme.
> I never said I wanted a traditional or a third wave world, just kinder; there are other options.
You're agreeing with me rather aggressively. I didn't claim or imply that you wanted any particular kind of world.
> Now can we be done errantly nitpicking well-established semantics?
These semantics are mental shortcuts that are harmful in this case to actually solving the problems we face. They frame the issue narrowly, which leads to a single viewpoint coloring the entire population.
> Many variations of the same theme.
Do you agree/disagree with all of them?
> You're agreeing with me rather aggressively. I didn't claim or imply that you wanted any particular kind of world.
I thought you were suggesting that only one or the other could exist, or that I needed to choose one.
> These semantics are mental shortcuts that are harmful in this case to actually solving the problems we face. They frame the issue narrowly, which leads to a single viewpoint coloring the entire population.
The population is largely defined by that fairly narrow viewpoint. Generalizing isn’t harmful for people who understand the term, and I won’t pander to those who don’t.
> Do you agree/disagree with all of them?
I disagree with the central theme—that gender is useful and perhaps even primary for establishing credibility and/or guilt. Theoretically some women may have used the slogan to mean “pizza is delicious”, in which case I would have to agree, but this falls well outside of the normal parameters of communication and sentiment (which have regrettably been challenged too often already over the course of this conversation).
These objections are exhausting. Yes, there are exceptions to every generalization. Generalizations are the only way we can reasonably describe large groups of people. In this case, the individuals in question are more or less defined by this shared opinion, so it's definitely a fair, constructive observation.
> Do third wave lesbians want chivalry?
I don't know what a "third wave lesbian" is. Also, to be clear, I doubt any third-wave feminist would say they want chivalry; but when you look at the things they advocate for ("believe all women", etc) and how they treat each gender, it looks like chivalry taken to extremes.
> Could just live in a more courteous and gallant world and leave out the gendered nonsense?
Sure we can, but it's not consistent with a traditional or third-wave-feminist worldview. Note that this isn't a criticism of any particular worldview.
> Also the idea that a specific gender is inherently moral / immoral is also ridiculous generalization and shouldn't be made my anyone.
Sure. I'm only making observations about different worldviews, not prescribing any particular worldview.