I tend to invest in people / companies rather than a technology. There are an abundance of good web frameworks out there so it's not like you're gonna have a bad time just because you don't use a specific one.
The people behind Django are one of the sharpest set of developers out there. Just hang out the django-developers mailing list for a bit and you'll likely conclude the same. Don't let this one PR color your entire judgement of an otherwise incredibly successful and polished piece of software.
> The people behind Django are one of the sharpest set of developers out there.
That may be, but it doesn't really matter to me if they put their political views into their code. It can literally be the best framework out there, built by the sharpest minds in the world and I would still use another framework even if it would hurt me economically.
Deciding to accept the status quo is also a political decision reflective of one’s political views. The issue here is that you don’t agree with this particular view, not that it is a political view.
Yes of course. I do not want others political views forced upon me. Just as I wouldn't want others religion force upon me. I would be as opposed to this change if it was 'god'/'disciples' or something similar.
I also think there would be more people like me if that were the case. But just because it's a popular opinion everyone lashes on my 'irrational' behavior. I don't think it's that irrational though.
Living in society today involves having others' political views forced on me every day, in the form of "you should accept the status quo and not speak up about it". Many people just don't understand this because the status quo is fine for them.
> Living in society today involves having others' political views forced on me every day
Yes to some extent. Most secular and democratic societies has agreed to a standard that I defend. Call it status quo if you want. I think decisions like Djangos goes against that standard and is probably why I feel so strongly about this. They want to police speech and force everyone to use specific words.
I don't think we should police speech but there is a lot of people that are pushing for censorship and making some speech illegal today and I simply defend the usage of the words master and slave. I don't think there is anything political about it and they are not racially charged since masters and slaves has occurred in basically all societies through time. Banning the words because of american politics is absurd. I hate the modern american politics, I am not an american and I do not want it in my life.
By doing this, Django forces everyone to think about this and you have to be extremely sensitive if this is what you go around and think/worry about. What else will they do in the future? Ban people from using Django for certain stuff etc? Surely it would be forked etc, but forks rarely works out great in the long run.
> Most secular and democratic societies has agreed to a standard that I defend.
Cool. But that’s your politics, and not necessarily everybody’s, and to have a different political position from you is not inherently morally wrong. We could argue about whether or not the status quo is fine, but that’s not the point - the point is simply that taking the status quo as acceptable is a political position which you’re subjecting others to, and your defence of it to the point of refusing to use software that does not back the status quo doubly so.
Or, in other words, you’re not for getting politics out of software - you’re for getting politics that you don’t agree with out of software.
> Or, in other words, you’re not for getting politics out of software - you’re for getting politics that you don’t agree with out of software.
Well yes, but I would be okay with the same being applied against me. Of course some basic level of politics is necessary (like licenses) if you want to count that as politics.
I won't go and put taxation politics, immigration politics or any other specific politic matters into my code or EULA. I expect this of other software as well. I don't want any unnecessary politics in the software when there clearly is no reason for it.
It feels to me, that people don't realize that there are probably a lot more people out there who speak English not as their first language, hence they don't have the same connotations of many words as the native speakers.
When I hear Django for example, first thing I think of is the slave from the "Django Unchained" Tarantino movie (or Django Reinhardt, the gypsy musician)...
Maybe this web framework shouldn't name itself after such a famous slave!...
Or from another point of view:
What a dick move was it from Tarantino to name his slave protagonist after such a popular web framework, which tries to be respectful, by avoiding references to slaves.
Also, I'm very much interested in the comment which sparked this thread.
I find it quite freaky, in a 1984-ish way, that it is completely inaccessible now.
What's next, flagging-people?
Burning books is just a few steps away...
You are a bit too trigger happy, maybe...
I linked to the now infamous Django PR that removes the words "slave" and "master" and said I stopped using django since then (after writing it is a great framework).
Then you're letting yourself be hurt by your political views.
The Django developers try to include the absolutely widest range of people they can. But if that makes people decide to exclude themselves, that's not Django's problem IMO.
Free software is a political movement. Calling it “free” was a political choice to convince people that proprietary software is “unfree”. I really don’t know where to begin explaining this...
Well yes, but they are not policing speech as far as I know. I have nothing against people/projects being political, it's when a specific political view that I do not agree with gets enforced upon me that the issue arises.
But at the end of the day, the choice is yours to make and it's simply your loss.