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> I have a hard time believing that a cover-up in Boeing was orchestrated over several years by a group of people all who didn't care about loss of life.

No orchestration is needed. Managers only need to look with disdain to anyone that brings the issue.

If your company does not put a lot of resources to make it transparent it is going to be opaque by default. Transparency is hard to achieve when humans are so good reading a superior expression of disapproval. Most people does not need to be told to not bring that problem again, all that we need is a subtle clue.

So, to get a cover up you only need to do nothing.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”




Exactly right - same thing that happened at NASA. There aren’t grand conspiracies - just people acting in their own interests, based on the incentives that have been set up (or evolved) in the organization.


No orchestration is needed. Managers only need to look with disdain to anyone that brings the issue.

Networks and social media extend the reach of these kinds of disdain, and take these mechanisms beyond the walls of the office and organization. In the present day climate, where accusations causing outrage tend more easily to become viral, one need not be someone's manager or even have a close relationship to exercise such power of disdain. The incentive structures in social media can act as a very efficient transmission substrate for these mechanisms.

One doesn't have to look far, to see how social media amplified groupthink has short circuited professional judgement -- even in highly visible and public circumstances. In particular, forums, email lists, and social media groups of journalists can be seen to be having such effects.

So, to get a cover up you only need to do nothing.

With just a modicum of digging, this can be seen quite clearly in 2019, in the mainstream media, which is declining but still trusted by the public.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”

This effect is very real and very powerful. This is why we as a society should be wary of the political exclusiveness of entire professions, entire industries, and of academia. If you're surrounded only by people of like minds, you're far less likely to have your idea checked by people highly motivated to find your faults. It's only diversity of opinions which guards against groupthink.


It’s not really social pressure when managers have so much direct power not just in major events like a lay off or promotion, but also day to day tasking. This generally results in people becoming hypersensitive to their boss’s disapproval.

Social networks on the other hand have far less direct impact which results in less socially accepted statements becoming common.


This generally results in people becoming hypersensitive to their boss’s disapproval.

In 2019, there are lots of examples of people being quite sensitive to approval over social media. This differs by individual circumstance. However, in 2019 there are entire fields where people must ascribe to some form of group consensus, or basically become un-personed from it. Media work seems to be particularly sensitive to this.

not just in major events like a lay off or promotion, but also day to day tasking

There are examples of journalists consulting and influencing each other in the context of news cycle events.

Social networks on the other hand have far less direct impact

This was once true but now is simply out of date and very wrong. In 2019, there are social networks which have very direct impact, and very large impacts on people's livelihood. There are entire fields where such social networks and online communication can get someone un-personed. These are basically the 2019 version of the "old boy network."


Over 32,000 journalists are working full time in the US, social media focus on a minute fraction of them.

Social media can be a near full time job. One many successful people simply don’t have time for.

So sure many NYT reporters might post their wedding photos online, but deeper interactions are often limited to people focusing on such things.


Over 32,000 journalists are working full time in the US, social media focus on a minute fraction of them.

You're conflating two entirely different things here. Much of the dysfunction/groupthink occurs through things like legacy media journalists using social media.

The point is that networks and social media enables offline channels for groupthink, which then affects other media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA2JII6TG4o

So sure many NYT reporters might post their wedding photos online

This of course, isn't an issue. (But mistakenly considered as such, it might as well be a strawman.) What is an issue are blue checkmark journalists engaging in toxic groupthink on Twitter. This also happens on email lists and industry insider forums.

(This isn't actually a new phenomenon. There are Vietnam era journalists who complained about how some correspondents never left bars in Saigon. The difference is that the groupthink can follow people around in their smartphone and come at them every waking hour.)


> “some correspondents” never left bars in Saigon

My point is group think requires significant interaction over social media. This requires more than visiting a bar one a month / posting wedding photos. It requires significant amounts of time and crossing that threashold is not very common.

So, sure a small fraction are significantly influenced but the majority is not. Making the overall influence far less significant than it might appear.

On top of that mainstream news organizations like FOX, CNN, NPR differentiate based on appealing to different groups. Which creates different spheres of social media for each segment. This has been intensified with online sources the Drudge Report going mainstream and gathering vast followings. Which means social media is pulling different reporters in different directions.


My point is group think requires significant interaction over social media.

Then the behavior of many journalists over social media should greatly concern you.

This requires more than visiting a bar one a month / posting wedding photos. It requires significant amounts of time and crossing that threshold is not very common.

This is common among journalists. Particularly those working in niche media.

Making the overall influence far less significant than it might appear.

Those who know the facts behind certain niche stories are amazed at the degree of reality warping done by the mainstream media. Just look at what happened around the Covington kids.


The Covington Kids story shows how social media amplified both sides of an issue. It’s the opposite of group think with multiple narratives showing up.

What you’re describing “group consensus” is a systemic bias. A historical example of say US WWII propaganda qualifies as essentially all US news is shifted in the same direction.

Waves of news with story X being updated to story Y over time is a different thing. That’s a question of which organizations get involved over time. You can find examples that support any narrative based on timing. But, bias would mean the story did not evolve.


The Covington Kids story shows how social media amplified both sides of an issue.

The behavior of mainstream journalists calling for the doxxing of and violence against these kids just strikes me as amazing. The groupthink involved with accepting the initial narrative is quite apparent.

What you’re describing “group consensus” is a systemic bias.

When systematic bias reaches the point where journalists completely abandon fact-checking and basic adult judgement, it's more than just "group consensus." Offering sexual favors to do things against kids? I'm sorry, but if I made something like that up, it would be purple prose. Journalists were swept up in that kind of groupthink!

A historical example of say US WWII propaganda qualifies as essentially all US news is shifted in the same direction.

Read Manufacturing Consent -- it's the same in 2019 as it was in the 1980's, we in the west just do it faster and harder with the bias, emotional words only for one side, and selective coverage. The thesis was that the west is just as bad as Pravda. In 2019, I find that Pravda was more subtle about it.

bias would mean the story did not evolve.

Bias can also mean that the retractions were either absent or all but meant to be invisible. In 2019, the typical media modus operandi is to technically be about the truth and retract, but engineer this to have basically zero effect. The number of mainstream sites who will edit a story, but give no indication of that, is just amazing to me.


Individual action does not imply collective action. Talking points can make it seem that way.

You need to factor in how stories are simply copied around the ecco chamber of mainstream news. But also how stories evolve not just what gets retracted.

You are focusing on an individual story, but also a specific point in time. A different narrative showed up and was passed around mainstream media changing your view of what happened. That’s more than a simple retraction.

What I find fascinating is it was even considered a story in the first place. But, it really resonated with you, so I guess they know what they are doing.




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